I am purchasing a new rifle for big game. I probably hunt 80% whitetail in a mix of woods and open. I also do some elk hunting mostly in wooded areas. Anyone own/shoot both of these calibers and if so, which would you keep if you could only keep one for this type of hunting??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
270 WSM or 7mm rem mag
- Thread starter dbhoug
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I assume you will be traveling west for the Elk Hunting...
you sorta have 2 very different rifles here and the 7mm mag. will be a much better all around rifle....
you can get some of the heavier bullets for the 7mm but there is a limited choice for bullets heavy enough for Elk in the 270... this caliber is marginal at best for Elk reguardless of what the western states regulations are...
Do you plan on reloading?
I know the whitetail in MN tend to grow pretty big... You may want to give some thought to a 30 Cal.
I have never really been impressed with the 7mm Mag... I have seen to many marginal results with it... but that is just my opinion and a different topic alltogether...
you sorta have 2 very different rifles here and the 7mm mag. will be a much better all around rifle....
you can get some of the heavier bullets for the 7mm but there is a limited choice for bullets heavy enough for Elk in the 270... this caliber is marginal at best for Elk reguardless of what the western states regulations are...
Do you plan on reloading?
I know the whitetail in MN tend to grow pretty big... You may want to give some thought to a 30 Cal.
I have never really been impressed with the 7mm Mag... I have seen to many marginal results with it... but that is just my opinion and a different topic alltogether...
Yes, the elk hunting takes place in western wash state.
You said that I have 2 very different rifles, however this was my thinking. Bore size similar.....277 vs .284. Similar ballistics w/equivalent bullets? Recoil similar? It was just my thinking, but I guess I spend more time hunting than I do analyzing all of this stuff. I would respect your thoughts. As far as needing something bigger for MN whitetail, I have used .270 for 20 years with no problems. The recoil is mild enough that I am pretty accurate with it. My only reason for moving to the WSM or 7 rem would be to have the flexibility for the bigger game....maybe I'm out to lunch here?
You said that I have 2 very different rifles, however this was my thinking. Bore size similar.....277 vs .284. Similar ballistics w/equivalent bullets? Recoil similar? It was just my thinking, but I guess I spend more time hunting than I do analyzing all of this stuff. I would respect your thoughts. As far as needing something bigger for MN whitetail, I have used .270 for 20 years with no problems. The recoil is mild enough that I am pretty accurate with it. My only reason for moving to the WSM or 7 rem would be to have the flexibility for the bigger game....maybe I'm out to lunch here?
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your train of thougth isn't all that bad.. but look at bullets weights... the 270 bullets are relativly "light"
you have a much better bullet selection in the 7mm ...
my experiences.. limited as they are with the 7mm Rem Mag.. sometimes too much speed is a bad thing with partition bullets or similarly constructed bullets....
Yes the 7mm Rem Mag.. will kill Elk... but I prefer to see the 30 cal. or 338 cal. for the 800 lb. Elk...
think of this... I realize youe experience is with the lighter recoiling 270... there is a 30 cal option here....
300WSM ;-) load it light 150-165 gr for your whitetail and then you have the option of 180 gr or heavier for the Elk...
recoil is very managable with the right rifle configuration...
However, of the 2 rifles you have listed... the 7mmREm Mag would be a prefeable option given the Elk part of the equation... the 270 in my opinion is just a bit too marginal .....
you have a much better bullet selection in the 7mm ...
my experiences.. limited as they are with the 7mm Rem Mag.. sometimes too much speed is a bad thing with partition bullets or similarly constructed bullets....
Yes the 7mm Rem Mag.. will kill Elk... but I prefer to see the 30 cal. or 338 cal. for the 800 lb. Elk...
think of this... I realize youe experience is with the lighter recoiling 270... there is a 30 cal option here....
300WSM ;-) load it light 150-165 gr for your whitetail and then you have the option of 180 gr or heavier for the Elk...
recoil is very managable with the right rifle configuration...
However, of the 2 rifles you have listed... the 7mmREm Mag would be a prefeable option given the Elk part of the equation... the 270 in my opinion is just a bit too marginal .....
wapiti13
Well-Known Member
Ric has a very valid point. If I was to get one gun does all for your needs, the 300 WSM would do the job. Why 7mm Rem Mag over the new 7mm WSM? You really are comparing apples and oranges. The Roosevelt elk of Western WA tend to have smaller racks & bigger bodies than the usual Rocky Mountain elk. Your shots may be shorter distance, but it is hard to make up for bullet weight. The 300 WSM will have more recoil than you presently have, but put on a Vais muzzle brake and recoil will be like a 308. Not much different than your present 270. Good luck. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Thanks, Ric for the info.....I definitely understand that a heavier bullet will aid in killing power (along with a number of other variables). However, I'm just thinking that buying the 300wsm would be massive overkill for the deer. Keep in mind that this is coming from a bowhunter, so I have always been of the mind that accuracy is paramount, and power has been more or less a constant. Popularity/availability of the 7mm rem mag also seems to be greater, although that may be changing. Maybe I was being optimistic in thinking that I could load up the 7 mag with a 175-180 grain bullet and take down an elk. However, I still believe that I would be more accurate with more manageable recoil, therefore a better choice would still be between the 7 mm rem mag and something more manageable. Maybe a 308 or 7mm-08 would make sense? Maybe I'm just thinking too much ( or maybe not at all)! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
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You are OK in your thinking... but I bet if I ren numbers you would see the 300WSM and the 7mm could be loaded to be nearly equal with some bullets... the 7 mag may get flatter trajectories and faster velocities... hell it may be more powerful.. not sure without running numbers...
I do know that you will not be "overkill" for the big deer in MN if you load 150's or 165's in the 300WSM... matter of fact you'd be right where you need to be...
then for your WA Elk the 180 Accubonds or even the 200 accubonds would do the job quite nicely...
the 308 would kill and Elk and matter of fact the 30-30 has killed more Elk than any other caliber on record .. however, I would not reccomend anything lighter than somthing along the lines of an 30-06...
I would seriously consider the 300WSM especially if you can reload.... my gunsmith doesn't kow it yet but I think I may just have another one built for an upcoming Antelope/Muledeer hunt in Oct. !!!!
I do know that you will not be "overkill" for the big deer in MN if you load 150's or 165's in the 300WSM... matter of fact you'd be right where you need to be...
then for your WA Elk the 180 Accubonds or even the 200 accubonds would do the job quite nicely...
the 308 would kill and Elk and matter of fact the 30-30 has killed more Elk than any other caliber on record .. however, I would not reccomend anything lighter than somthing along the lines of an 30-06...
I would seriously consider the 300WSM especially if you can reload.... my gunsmith doesn't kow it yet but I think I may just have another one built for an upcoming Antelope/Muledeer hunt in Oct. !!!!
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no problem.... glad to help...
norsepeak
Well-Known Member
I've seen plenty of elk killed with the .270. You just have to make a good shot. (which should be every hunter's goal)
Just like when i showed up for the Buffalo hunt with my .277 The park rangers wanted a 300 mag at least and most of the guys actually had .338 and 375's.
They were skeptical of a 270. But they must have thought that I know something because I explained these 140's would go through 1/2 inch of steel at 200 yards and no 30's or 338 win mags had ever punched holes clear through at our local silhouette - In fairness to the 30 & 338's people were using heavier bullets like the 180-200 30's and 250 & 275 gr 338s So maybe lighter high speed rounds would make it through instead of just big impact craters.
270 Ackley Improved with 29 inch barrel and the 140 boat tails @ 3280 fps 1500 lbs about 45 degrees facing to me. 185 yards or so and below me. Studied the anotomy so it was the best shot to go through the shoulder blade and get the bullet to expand before going through the heart and lung area. The park rangers explained that they wanted head shots for instant kills. I shot first out of 8 of us and it fell over dead. they made the assumption that it must have been a head shot. I didn't want to tear it's head up because it was going to be mounted. Some of the big gun guys had them running all over wounded and the rangers had to shoot them several times.
The 270 wsm with fast 140-150's can take out elk at reasonable ranges.
I think all hunters need to use bow hunter skills. I got my first Elk from about 50 yards away and it was looking at me. I'm pretty sure that a 270 causes a bigger wound channel than a broad head
They were skeptical of a 270. But they must have thought that I know something because I explained these 140's would go through 1/2 inch of steel at 200 yards and no 30's or 338 win mags had ever punched holes clear through at our local silhouette - In fairness to the 30 & 338's people were using heavier bullets like the 180-200 30's and 250 & 275 gr 338s So maybe lighter high speed rounds would make it through instead of just big impact craters.
270 Ackley Improved with 29 inch barrel and the 140 boat tails @ 3280 fps 1500 lbs about 45 degrees facing to me. 185 yards or so and below me. Studied the anotomy so it was the best shot to go through the shoulder blade and get the bullet to expand before going through the heart and lung area. The park rangers explained that they wanted head shots for instant kills. I shot first out of 8 of us and it fell over dead. they made the assumption that it must have been a head shot. I didn't want to tear it's head up because it was going to be mounted. Some of the big gun guys had them running all over wounded and the rangers had to shoot them several times.
The 270 wsm with fast 140-150's can take out elk at reasonable ranges.
I think all hunters need to use bow hunter skills. I got my first Elk from about 50 yards away and it was looking at me. I'm pretty sure that a 270 causes a bigger wound channel than a broad head
Zane in Oregon
Member
First, I will admit that I am not a belted case fan.
I have seen several elk killed with a standard 270 Win, and even a few with a 2506 or 243. These were the rocky mountain variety and ranges were under 400 yards.
Were I to chose one of these it would be the 270 WSM. But I also agree with the statement about a bigger bullet selection for the 284. I would seriously consider the 7mm WSM. Were I to go bigger I think I would go with a 7mm Dakota, although brass is not cheap.
To beat a dead horse, bullet placement is key. If you shoot a hind leg off with a 338 or a 243, the result will be the same. Also, if you are recoil concious, like I am, and many people are and will not admit, then a smaller rifle that you can shoot well is better than a cannon that makes you flinch. Just my thoughts. Honostly, this class of calibers (WSM and especially the Dakota) is about all I want to shoot in a sporter weight rifle without some sort of brake.
Just one more opinion for ya.
I have seen several elk killed with a standard 270 Win, and even a few with a 2506 or 243. These were the rocky mountain variety and ranges were under 400 yards.
Were I to chose one of these it would be the 270 WSM. But I also agree with the statement about a bigger bullet selection for the 284. I would seriously consider the 7mm WSM. Were I to go bigger I think I would go with a 7mm Dakota, although brass is not cheap.
To beat a dead horse, bullet placement is key. If you shoot a hind leg off with a 338 or a 243, the result will be the same. Also, if you are recoil concious, like I am, and many people are and will not admit, then a smaller rifle that you can shoot well is better than a cannon that makes you flinch. Just my thoughts. Honostly, this class of calibers (WSM and especially the Dakota) is about all I want to shoot in a sporter weight rifle without some sort of brake.
Just one more opinion for ya.
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270 .. in my opinion is too light... the buffalo scenerio is good.. but you had optimum conditions.. time... not out of breath....etc....I wonder the results if you would have hit that shoulder blade...
I do agree bow hunting helps you "think" through a shot..
not all hunting situations are like that....
if you are a very adept marksman light calibers are fine.. but there are numerous situations when a little more power helps...
studies have proven that to effecivly kill and animal you need 8" X 1/2" dia wound channel.... this is typically enough to kill the animal... I suspect it is subject to a shot in the vitals...
as always shot placement is key... and you can "over power" and much as "under power"
I keep recalling the 7mm Rem mag. the Rem Core lokt bullet/partion type... that zipped right though a mulie...
high speed bullets are deflected easy....
reflecting back on the antelope hunt this fall... my buddy shoots at an antelope at 600 yards... he is shooting a 300RUM with handloads I made for him... the bullet is a 200 gr accubond... and they are screaming .... I set up a load for 1K plus shots...
he hit the antelope in the chest... bullets hits a rib.. and does a hard right turn.... and literally gutted the antelope...
obviously personal preference play as part.. heavy recoiling calibers can be tammed...
I am very recoil sensitive.. but I love to shoot the 300WM but it is breaked and I shoot it well...
I do agree bow hunting helps you "think" through a shot..
not all hunting situations are like that....
if you are a very adept marksman light calibers are fine.. but there are numerous situations when a little more power helps...
studies have proven that to effecivly kill and animal you need 8" X 1/2" dia wound channel.... this is typically enough to kill the animal... I suspect it is subject to a shot in the vitals...
as always shot placement is key... and you can "over power" and much as "under power"
I keep recalling the 7mm Rem mag. the Rem Core lokt bullet/partion type... that zipped right though a mulie...
high speed bullets are deflected easy....
reflecting back on the antelope hunt this fall... my buddy shoots at an antelope at 600 yards... he is shooting a 300RUM with handloads I made for him... the bullet is a 200 gr accubond... and they are screaming .... I set up a load for 1K plus shots...
he hit the antelope in the chest... bullets hits a rib.. and does a hard right turn.... and literally gutted the antelope...
obviously personal preference play as part.. heavy recoiling calibers can be tammed...
I am very recoil sensitive.. but I love to shoot the 300WM but it is breaked and I shoot it well...
Thanks for posting the question Tikka. I'm sorta in the same boat. I'm coming out of retirement and have 'clearance' for a new rifle. Contacted my hunting partner to chat ballistics. We hunted north of you in Northwest Ontario for moose and deer, he still does. He soon had the book out comparing 7mmMag and 270wsm velocities etc. He is currently shooting a 300WM for moose but wishes he had his 7mm back. Anyways, his feeling for buying new to use for both deer and moose is the 270wsm with partitions and accubonds providing the change up. I've got to investigate fit/recoil pads myself more though too.
let us know which way you go on this
let us know which way you go on this
