270 Allen Mag Reborn-Thanks to Matrix Bullets

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by royinidaho, Jul 31, 2014.

  1. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    In 2011 I posted on a thread regarding Matrix bullets. The #5 post of this thread. http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/277-matrix-bullets-81079/

    Marshall @ Matrix seems to have come of age since then.

    I am running low on Wildcat 169.5 bullets which is, to me, the optimum weigh range for the 270 Allen Magnum. With enough whining Marshall sent some 165 grain VLDs for testing.

    In 2011 it seemed probable that Matrix offerings would would not hold together out of a 3 groove 8 twist barrel at Allen Mag velocities.

    It was gracious of Marshall to allow me to put them through the paces.

    Upon opening the box I was more than impressed with the bullet's appearance. They flat reeked of quality. As far as looks go, I've never seen better. By anyone.

    Meplat is very small. Almost dainty. And sufficiently uniform that I would give no consideration to any repointing efforts. When I can shoot 350 SMKs out of a 375 Allen Magnum repointed with brass tips up to 0.008 inches of wobble into the same group size as unfiddled with 350 SMKs I'm certainly not going to obsess over the tiny variations in the Matrix VLD points.

    First quest was to see if they would hold together. This called for a push to distruction test. Something I'm pretty good at.:)

    I settled on a load of 7828ssc as that is the powder I use with 150 grain offerings. I reached pressure limits at around 3350 FPS with all bullets forming nice round holes @ 100 yds.

    My standard 169.5 grain Wildcat load is 94 grains of US-869 for a little less than 3300 FPS MV. I can push to 99 grains and 3500+ FPS but 3 shots on Remmy brass and they're done. Simply can't afford the money, time or effort to go through brass at that rate.

    Result is that there is no way these bullets are going to dust or wobble or do anything but be stable at any velocity I can push them to with this li'l pecker wood cartridge.gun)

    I spent no time "tuning" seating depth. Simply letting the chamber set the seating depth to touch the lead and backing off 0.010"

    I ran velocities up to the 3550 FPS range with no adverse effects on the Matrix VLDs.

    The first 3 shot group @ 100 went just under MOA at 3500+ FPS. Good enough consistency for my purposes. Pressures were up there but not nearly as high as with the same powder charge and 169.5 Wildcats.

    The Matrix is slightly shorter overall than the Wildcat with may 0.10" shorter bearing surface. The goto load I settled on is 98 gr of US-869 and a velocity of 3450 FPS.

    I ran out of bullets before being able to tweak group size by varying seating depth. However, several 3-shot groups @ 100, 200 and 300 yards never exceeded 1 MOA.

    I can see no cons to this bullet. I use a bc of 0.72 for the Wildcat. If the Matrix is anything over 0.59 or so it'll flat out perform the Wildcat at these velocities. Again I ran out of bullets before being to do long range drops. From the 200 and 300 yard drops I'm guessing that at my elevation the published static bc may well be conservative. Here's hoping.:)

    Another plus is that it appears that with the pressures generated by the 98 grains of US-869 I may well be able to use that soft Nosler brass. Remmy brass in non-existent around here.

    Net result is that I went to the local store I favor, Bob & Tom's Big Boar Gun Store in Blackfoot Idaho and ordered several hundred of these bullets. I suppose I could order directly from Matrix but hey more people than just me should know about these offerings. We'll see if they can make an arrangement with Matrix and get some stock.

    I'm elated to not be cringing every time I run a bullet though that rifle.

    Now to bag a woof!!

    A special shout out to Marshall for his willingness to take the risk of providing bullets so some yokel could beat the H out of 'em. They passed all tests with flying colors….
     
  2. Outlaw6.0

    Outlaw6.0 Well-Known Member

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    Marshall is awesome to work with. I just finished (last night) loading +100 6.5- 160grn Matrix for my upcoming 406 Precision class. They are gorgeous bullets, the 160's do have slight deformities at the meplat similar to Berger or Sierra; definitely nothing to worry about.

    As you stated Roy, testing at 100, 200 & 400 yards have only producted one (1) group over moa due to the bolts in my Atlas picatinny rail coming loose. That was my fault, not Marshalls. I recall my initial pressure/velocity/ladder test at 415yds putting four (4) different charges .5 grns variance each in to <1"!!! I was giddy to say the least.

    Marshall is making a large name for himself, I sure hope he can continue to provide an excellent product at the turn around time going right now. My last order for 200 160's resulted in an immediate email from Marshall stating they would be in the mail the following morning; you can't ask for better service as quite frankly, it doesn't exist.



    t
     

  3. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    I, to be supportive of local business, asked them if they could get me some Matrix bullets.

    They indicated that there may be some kind of an import issue when product is going to a business. No such problem if going to and individual. I don't understand.

    Either I will get my hands on some more Matrix offerings.
     
  4. azsugarbear

    azsugarbear Well-Known Member

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    I need to chime in as well. I shoot the 277 Allen Mag, which uses a different parent case than the 270 AM. In the end, ballistics are nearly the same. Marshal did wonders for me as well. He was willing to experiment with me and finally came up with a 170 gr. bullet that does wonders in my rifle. Can't say enough good about Marshall or Matrix Bullets.
     
  5. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    It is said that a blind hog stumbles onto an acorn once in awhile…

    Not the case with Marshall.

    I studied his advertising and looked at his operations pictures.

    Both reflect a strong common sense business like approach.

    He isn't afraid to risk a little.

    One big plus is that the dies he uses are made by one of the best die makers. Awhile back I considered making my own bullets. Searched most if not all of the die makers. Talked to a ton of them. I determined who I thought was the very best. Marshall uses that fellas dies.

    Thanks again, Marshall
     
  6. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    I'll just chime in here and amen that you simply can not beat Marshals attitude and willingness to help we long range nuts! Besides that, he is making some VERY good bullets!.......Rich
     
  7. Crashman1

    Crashman1 Well-Known Member

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    Yup, marshall is the man! Love his bullets and will be ordering more soon.
     
  8. cummin_un_glued

    cummin_un_glued Well-Known Member

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    ordered 400 of the 165 vld 277s myself a few weeks ago, got an email the next morning saying they were on their way. now they are sitting on my bench waiting on the rifle to be finished :)
     
  9. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    As the OP of this thread I feel obligated add the following:

    Things are the pits!!!!!

    Replaced the scope on the 270 AM and began drop validation on the Matrix 165s.

    I'd only shot them at shorter distances for load development. They shot as I stated earlier super well.

    Set the target at 544 yards and set up the video equipment.

    Had difficulty right off the bat.

    Things were not going well at all.

    My conclusion that if anyone has an 8 twist, 3 groove Lilja barrel in 270 fill that sucker full of lead and use it for a jack handle.:rolleyes:

    Only one of the shots that hit the paper was round!!!! The rest were all over the 3'x3' cardboard target holder.

    The 8 1/2' X 11" target paper was, due to the way things were, about 3/4" from the card board where a bullet struck. Guess what, the hole in the cardboard couldn't be seen by looking through the hole in the target paper. Not even when the target paper was pressed against the cardboard.

    The cardboard penetration was a full caliber offset from the paper hole. That's one heck of an angle for the bullet to be traveling.:rolleyes:

    I have on order some Cutting Edge bullets. I'm bettin' those suckers will hold up.

    I have concern that they will shoot well for me. But I'm darn sure gonna try.

    I've fought that rifle since 2007 and every time I get her shooting good, when she shoots she shoots exceptionally well, but comes unglued at I'm getting ready to head out on a hunt. This makes 4 times I've restarted at zero, including barrel replacement.

    Darn!
     
  10. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    That's too bad Roy! The Allen must turn up a few too many rpm for the wide lands on that tri twister. I have one on my 6.5 Sherman and have had good success with it and I also had a couple on 300 ultras. What is the MV on that load? You probably have a little roughness in the throat by now that isn't helping either. Maybe the CE's will be the answer............Rich
     
  11. Idaho Trecker

    Idaho Trecker Well-Known Member

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    This is disappointing as I have that exact barrel being chambered in a 270 Sherman as we speak. Are you thinking the problem is the speed you are shooting or the bullet? I was hoping to shoot the 165 matrix exclusively in this rifle. I was going to order a few hundred today but now it sounds like I should see if anyone will part with some for a reasonable price so I can test before dropping the money on a large order.
     
  12. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    I really don't think it is a problem normally! Just too much velocity..........Rich
     
  13. azsugarbear

    azsugarbear Well-Known Member

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    I shoot a 277 Allen Magnum (based on the 338 Lapua case) using the 170 gr. Matrix with good success. My barrel is also a three groove Lilja. Initially, the barrel shredded the Matrix 175's, but the 170's seem to have a tougher jacket and do just fine. I think the 175 would do just fine in a 270 WSM or the like.

    I have also found that coating the old 195 gr. Wildcat bullets (looooooong bearing surface) with hexagonal boron nitride (HBN - similar to molly) allows me to shoot them once again without any problems. I have about 470 rounds down the tube.
     
  14. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    I've been reading/researching HBN coating of bullets and bores for a week or so now. I'm just about an armchair expert at this point, after hours of research.

    I was going to suggest HBN coating of bullets and bore, as this treatment is reported to reduce bullet to bore friction and barrel/bullet heat during bullet launch. The reduced stress should allow recovery of use of some bullets in cases where bullets are occasionally coming unglued during launch.

    I'm going to jump into HBN bullet and bore coating. Other purported benefits are increased bore life and increased MV. Also, HBN doesn't removes a few of the negatives that exist with Moly coating of bullets. Anyone shooting anything Allen Magnum should appreciate increased MV... :)