264 Win Mag and Barrel Life

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Mule, May 2, 2007.

  1. Mule

    Mule Well-Known Member

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    I have been recently toying with getting another rifle (shocking, I know)and have read the old descriptions of certain cartridges which are "known barrel burners" with low (1k) barrel life. The 264 win mag seems to have this in its description.

    Have better barrels and throating styles in modern rifles removed this "scarlet letter" for this cartidge and others in this category or is there some recommendations on velocity/bullet weights which extend the barrel life?

    Thanks for the input

    Mule
     
  2. FRANK21

    FRANK21 Well-Known Member

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    I had one built a few years back, 27" Lilja, launching 142SMKs @3250- it didnt last 600 rounds. Had to chase the throat every 50-70 rnds. Never, never again. That rifle is now in my favorite cartridge, the 7mmRM!
     

  3. CatShooter

    CatShooter Well-Known Member

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    The .264 is like any other large volume case.

    They can be really tough on barrels, or not so tough on barrels.

    The problem with the .264WM, the .220 Swift, and others of this ilk, is the people that are attracted to these rounds, want the most velocity they can get (or they would get slower rounds).

    When these rounds are pushed to the edge, they can eat barrels in little time.

    142 SMKs @ 3250, is WAY over max load and bound to eat up throats... doesn't mean it's "unsafe", just that it's a real mean load on barrels... loading manuals list 3,000 as max with this weight.

    If you load reasonable loads, you can get 1,200 to 1,500 rounds out of a barrel... just don't take it to a prairie dog town.

    .
     
  4. ol mike

    ol mike Well-Known Member

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    "And others of this ilk" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif-good jab !
     
  5. Mule

    Mule Well-Known Member

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    So what makes this group of cartidges susceptable to such wear? Is is related to the amount of powder burnt to get to 3,000fps and beyond or just a combination of things that lead to an early death of the barrel?

    Mule
     
  6. CatShooter

    CatShooter Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    "And others of this ilk" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif-good jab !

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I wasn't jabbing at anyone. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    I was talking about the family of cartridges that have high case volume in relationship to the bore size.

    These are the .22-250, the .220 swift, 6mm AI, 6x284, 6.5-'06, etc. These carts have two things against them... they are barrel burners, and they are rounds that are often used in conditions that consume lots of rounds, like PD towns, 'chuckin', etc.

    .
     
  7. CatShooter

    CatShooter Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    So what makes this group of cartidges susceptable to such wear? Is is related to the amount of powder burnt to get to 3,000fps and beyond or just a combination of things that lead to an early death of the barrel?

    Mule

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It's the relationship of the case capacity to the bore size.

    If you take a large case like the H&H and put it in a small bore, like a .270 or 6.5... the bore will burn out very fast.

    The same case size and same amount of powder in a large bore size like a .375, or .458, and the barrel throat will last forever.

    There are some ridiculous wild cats like the .22x284 and .22-'06 whose barrel lives are measured in 100 to 200 rounds.

    You pays your money and you takes your choice...

    .
     
  8. remingtonman_25_06

    remingtonman_25_06 Well-Known Member

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    I was not aware the 6.5-06 was a barrel burner catshooter. So does that mean the 25-06 is a barrel burner as well??? My last one lasted 3000 rounds, thats pretty good if you ask me. Since the 6.5 is a little bigger in bore diameter, I've always been under the influence that you'll get the same or better barrel life. When I shoot this 25-06 out, Its getting rebarreled to a 6.5-06 for sure, maybe even AI.
     
  9. Nomosendero

    Nomosendero Well-Known Member

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    Also, my Barnes manual show that the 270 Wea. has a case cap.
    of 85.34 gr. of water & the 264 has 81.51 gr. of water. I understand how the 270Wea. may have a LITTLE better barrel life, but the ratio does not seem very different to me. But yet, I see the 264 mentioned this way alot, but almost never the 270Wea.
     
  10. CatShooter

    CatShooter Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I was not aware the 6.5-06 was a barrel burner catshooter. So does that mean the 25-06 is a barrel burner as well??? My last one lasted 3000 rounds, thats pretty good if you ask me. Since the 6.5 is a little bigger in bore diameter, I've always been under the influence that you'll get the same or better barrel life. When I shoot this 25-06 out, Its getting rebarreled to a 6.5-06 for sure, maybe even AI.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Rem...

    With these large case, small bore cartridges, it's not so much what the caliber is, but how it's loaded.

    There are folks that can kill a .22-250 in a 1,000 rounds, and others that get 3,500 rounds.

    The harder you drive it, the less barrel life you will get.

    For a given pressure level, the heavier the bullet, the shorter the barrel life you will get.

    Because these rounds are often picked for long range shooting, the owners load heavy bullets at max "plus" loads.

    Lotsa guys are running the heavy bullets at 65+ Kpsi.

    Also... old reputations die hard. When the .264WM came out, it was the baddest thing around, and it ate up those old soft steel barrels.

    That "rep" is still there, and now guys will say that some other hottie, with the same case capacity has three times the case life...

    I have heard guys say that the 6.5 Gibbs has three times the barrel life of the .264WM... but their Gibbs holds just two or three percent less powder. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    With any of these cases... if you load it reasonably, it will last much longer than it's reputation will imply.

    .
     
  11. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    I would tend to agree with Catshooter on this one. AS you all know I have my personal line of wildcats that to be honest make the cartridges we are talking about look pretty tame and mild.

    Barrel life is in the loading and in the way the rifle is shot and cared for.

    For an example, many of my customer will take my 270 AM and load it to full pressures and get +3400 fps with a 170 gr class bullet. I personally load it to 3250 fps which is WAY off max loads and pressures.

    Why do I load it to this level and no higher. A .7 bc bullet at 3250 fps is plenty for my needs and barrel life increases dramatically compared to full pressure loads.

    Many look at cartidges with very large capacities and small bore diameters as a way to flat out horse power light bullets to hyper velocities thinking that will get them long range performance. This will work out to 500-600 yards but past that its still gravity that gets their goose.

    My theory is to take a VERY heavy bullet with a very high BC and load it to moderate velocities and let the bullet do most of the work.

    By doing so, pressures can be kept low, case life increases dramatically as does throat life compared to the same load ran to very top end velocity.

    The bullets do most of the work when they get in the air.

    One example of this is my 22-250 AI which I barreled with a 1-7 Lilja. I just used this rifle on an exotic game hunt to take a very nice Fallow Buck at 310 yards. This is not terribly long range but with a 22 cal round on a 275 lb animal its no small order.

    The reason I felt confident taking the shot which was a solid shoulder hold was the bullet I was using, the new 100 gr ULD RBBT from Wildcat Bullets. I only load them to 3030 fps and even at that very low velocity, it will still outperform all the lighter bullets at ranges much past 300 yards especially in energy.

    Best thing is this is a comfortable load, very comfortable in fact and I suspect that load will result in a throat life over 2000 rounds easily. In all reality, I will never burn that throat out long range varminting or predater hunting.

    If you heat the barrels up they retire faster. Take care of them, do not overheat them, clean them regularly and do not load to red line pressures and you will get more barrel life then you would ever expect.

    Push them to the limits and heat the barrels up, you will need a new barrel very quickly. This is true for any cartridge to be honest. Its heat that is hard on a barrel so if you heat any barrel up and keep shooting it you will get accelerated barrel wear. Some chamberings just get you to that point faster then others.

    Know your rifle and load and shoot it accordingly and you will be suprised how long modern barrels will last you.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  12. Black Diamond 408

    Black Diamond 408 Well-Known Member

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    I have had a lot of the "barrel burners" over the years. In my infinite wisdom i have figured this out, you can make a bbl last if you keep it very clean, dont over heat it and dont over load it. If your building a rifle that you know will be used mostly for hunting and very little target practice, the barrel will last a long time. The average hunter dont shoot more than 20 rounds a year, going by the midwest farmer clan that i delt with for over 30 years. They would fire a few shots before deer season and go hunting, put it away until next year. Not all sportsman are like this but it does put it into perspective, if this is your type of rifle shooting the rifle will last a long long time.

    Dave
     
  13. Black Diamond 408

    Black Diamond 408 Well-Known Member

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    It wouldnt let me edit either, so i forgot to add this...

    There is NO SUCH THING AS A BARREL BURNER...if you dont shoot it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  14. TCampbell

    TCampbell Active Member

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    Don't mean to high-jack this thread but I have some questions that are somewhat on topic.

    How do you know if your barrel is worn out?

    Do you lose accuracy ,velocity, or both?

    When a barrel is worn out can you hack off some barrel and re-chamber to clean up the throat or is the whole barrel length worn out?

    Thanks