.260 Rem or 6.5X47 Lapua?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Natty Bumpo, Jan 11, 2008.

  1. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    175
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2008
    Was toying with the notion of having a rifle built. Had originally been figuring on .260 Remington but the 'smith I spoke with suggested I consider the 6.5X47 Lapua, describing it as being like a .260 Rem A.I. He also pointed out the quality of Lapua brass compared to Remington, which could make a difference at extended range.

    The only drawback I can see is the cost of the Lapua brass. Of course, you get what you pay for. Any opinions?
     
  2. britz

    britz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,217
    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2007
    I have no experience with either cartidge, but just looking at the brass scematics I'd have to say that the smith wasn't right. the 260 has a 20 degree shoulder and a main capacity length to the datumn line of 42.35mm, whereas the 6.5 x 47 has a main capacity length of 37.4 to datumn line. The body taper is nearly identical (width of both cartridges is within .06 mm). Here is a link to the 6.5 x 47 6.5x47 Lapua Benchrest--New Cartridge Info
    I'm sure it is an absolutely excelent cartridge, but you should know what you are getting. It seems the 260 will have a little more power.
     

  3. winmagman

    winmagman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,379
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2003
    Natty,

    I'd have to agree with britz, I shoot a 6.5 WSSM and it seems to be right in the 260 AI ballpark. While I have no actual experience with one I don't think you'll get a 6.5x47 to run that hot without extremely short case or rifle life.:eek:

    Chris
     
  4. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,854
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    I had my 260 built before the 6.5x47 was a big hit , and I seriously doubt that I would change anything if I built another gun. I have a "260 Match" chamber which is a little tighter than spec but not to tight to fit factory ammo , i use Lapua 308 brass and neck it down this gives me a tight neck situation so I turn them a little and all is well , so iget a tight neck benifit yet i can still shoot factory ammo !!!

    I chose the regular 260 over the Ackley improved version simply de to the less hassel of fire forming barass.
     
  5. eddybo

    eddybo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,651
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2007
    Quickload lists max safe pressure for the 260 at 60k and lists the 6.5x47 at 63Kpsi. I have never compared two rounds with closer to identical performance all componants being equal. I like the small primers on the 6.5x47....and you do not have to form anything to shoot lapua brass.
     
  6. JeffVN

    JeffVN Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    620
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2004
    I currerntly own and shoot a long-throated .260, and looked at the 6.5x47 before choosing the .260. To me, teh Lapua brass was a nice extra, but didn't carry the day. To get the 6.5x47 to .260 velocities, you need to run near max pressure for the chambering - which will reduce the life of the very expensive Lapua brass. While the small primers and hard brass will help it get to and maintain higher chamber pressures then the .260, I think a longer throated .260 - like mine - will ultimately provide a bit more velocity in the long run.

    I have a good friend that is bullding a rifle in the 6.5x47. You never know, shooting his may cause me to reevaluate.

    JeffVN
     
  7. eddybo

    eddybo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,651
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2007
    I forgot to mention another reason I fell that these two rounds are going to give you very similar performance. I do not own a .260 but I do own a 243AI. I also have a 6-6.5x47. With 115 dtacs my 6-6.5x47 will run right with the larger .243AI case and may have a slight accuracy advantage. I do not think there is going to be 30fps difference between them. It should just boil down to a coin flip IMO.
    If you run them both on the hot side the small primer case will stay tight longer. I have 66 cases that have been fired 12 times the other 40 odd cases from that first 100 pieces I bought have been fired close to 20 times. Primer pockets are still very tight, necks need annealing but primers are tight.
     
  8. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,705
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    I agree with eddybo. The soft 260 remington brass cannot be loaded to the same pressure as the 6x47 lapua and actual, real-world velocities are very similiar if not identical. Especially if loading to fit a vld bullet into a shorter box magazine.

    In my mind, there isn't even a comparison in these two cartridges. The lapua has a smaller flash hole (proven to be more accurate) and uses a small rifle primer (which is less violent for such a smallish case) and the brass is harder, more uniform, and the necks are longer. In my mind, if you want more speed with a 6.5mm, you shoot a 6.5-284 or 6.5 WSM. If you want a smaller case that has better barrel life, you should go with a 6.5x47 lapua. I'm not saying the 260 is a dog or anything, but it has been outdone by the lapua and the current match reports prove it.
     
  9. NesikaChad

    NesikaChad Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    753
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2007
    Can I chime in?

    Having been the first knuckledragger to ever chamber the 6X47 here in the States, I might be able to contribute here. (I built a course gun and forming dies for a guy in CA almost seven years ago.)

    Understand this cartridge was never intended for anything other than 300 meter international type competitive shooting. The cartridge was developed by the Swiss rifle team.

    The original factory loaded RUAG ammunition was loaded to a velocity of just over 2800 fps with 105 A max bullets from Hornady.

    That's it.

    So, considering the case for the 6.5 is virtually identical in every way with the exception of neck ID and the small primer, it's not unrealistic to say this cartridge is slower.

    Now, that being said, here's something that screws all this up a little.

    In 2002 I worked on a little project with a kid who shot on the US Long Range Team (Jr Palma). We built a cross the course L/H AR-10. One of the first L/H AR-10 receivers ever produced by Rock River.

    Anyways, we chambered it in 6X47 and took it to Raton's 1000 yard range.

    His first time out, with experimental hand loads, the gun shot an 8X clean at the 1K line.

    Not bad for a gas gun. It held 1/3 moa elevation all day long.

    So, for hunting the 6.5 might be a little light for stuff way out there, but if your shooting dogs or "yotes" I think you'll be fine.
     
  10. eddybo

    eddybo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,651
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2007
    Chad...I may be wrong here but didnt the 6.5x47 originally have the large primer pockets? I think I read this somewhere and this may be the reason you only got 28k with the 105 a-max. I am getting nearly 3100 with the 115 moly dtac out of my 6x47 and a touch over 3k fps with 123 smks in my 6.5x47. Accuracy is somewhere between a 6ppc and a 6br IMO
     
  11. NesikaChad

    NesikaChad Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    753
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2007
    Yes, the 6X47SM has large rifle primer pockets.

    The main intention of the cartridge is tailored about heavy six millimeter bullets.

    My brass source was an old man in switzerland picking once fired cases from the range. He'd then mail them to me.

    Neat cartridge. I became obsessed with it for awhile. still want to build another gun on it just cause I have all the tooling and brass now.

    someday. . .
     
  12. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,854
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    I have a 260 thats chamber is cut on the tight end of the norm , I use 308 lapua brass with the necks barely turned giving me a tight neck advantage , I've kept track with this thread for a while and just a bit ago I decided to run a few loads though it just to see what would happen.

    Here is what was used
    Remm 700 action fully blueprinted 27" Lilja 3 groove barrel 1-8 twist
    308 brass nrck down once fired and neck sized
    140gr Berger VLD bullet
    Federal 210M primers

    ending max load 52gr of N-165 powder resulted in sticky bolt and slightly flattened primers the absolute max i'll run pressure wise , average velocity for 3 shots was 3029fps !!
    no check for accuracy

    ending max load 50grs or N-560 powder rewsulting in sticky bolt and flattening primers , average velocity for 3 shots was 3077fps

    I'm a firm believer in the saying their is no substitute for cubic inches so when the same quality brass is used the 260 will out run the 6.5x47 but at what cost , higher pressures with a noticable increase in powder which is going to meen faster barrel wear. Also the need for an extenede mag box fitted to seat the bullets out realy far. I'm noit sure what the 6.5x47 can do when run up to max pressures , it realy doesn't matter as the chances of the any gun shooting well at maxed out pressures is slim no matter what the caliber
    I love my 260 , its very accurate , using quality Lapua brass is a huge plus ,that said I'll be building a 6mm very soon as pretty much a dedicated target rifle and I'll be using the 6.5x47 Lapua as the parent case , their is just to many advantages with this smaller case not to use it , especialy being necked down to 6mm.

    If I were gonna build another 6.5 I'd certainly use the 6.5x47
     
  13. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    175
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2008
    Thanks for all the helpful advice. I also considered the 6.5 Creedmoor which operates at lower pressure than the 6.5X47; but, it's still too early for that one and the smith I've been speaking with can't do it. I've decided to go with the 6.5X47 Lapua. Brass is pricier, but better. Pressure is higher, but it doesn't have to be loaded to maximum. I wasn't aware the neck is longer than the .260 Rem, but that's worth something. Longer case necks are easier on the throat. With either chambering, it'll be around 9 months before the rifle is done.
     
  14. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,269
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    I think you'll find yourself shooting 123-130gr bullets using the 6.5x47. With the 140+gr bullets you'll be doggin along pretty slow.
    I don't have a 260, but my 6.5wssm pretty much matches the capacity, and no 6.5x47 will ever keep up with it.
    Just as I will never touch 6.5x284 potential.

    It really does come down to capacity.
    Any other claims, once qualified, amount to nothing unexpected.