.257 Wby --> .25-06 AI

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by gr8whyt, Jan 14, 2011.

  1. gr8whyt

    gr8whyt Well-Known Member

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    Talked to my 'smith this afternoon. I was asking him if there was a way he could close up the bolt face from a magnum to a standard on my 700 Rem. Told him I was having second thoughts about the .257 Wby he was gonna start on for me soon. He said he could do it by sleeving the bolt face and cutting it for a Sako type extractor. Then he said "Wait!". He had a standard face bolt body laying around. He could give me that one and keep my magnum bolt body. And he had a reamer for a .25-06 Ackley Improved. He said he much preferred the .25-06 AI over the .257 Wby.

    So I said "Let's do it." I'm liking this a lot! I may be giving up a bit of speed, but from what I can find, not very much. Nice!

    -- gr8whyt
     
  2. mike33

    mike33 Well-Known Member

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    I have a 25 x 284 that you wouldnt tell much difference with and dont have to fire form cases.
    mike
     

  3. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    personally I'd do a .257AI before I'd do the 25-06 or the Weatherby. Been around all three a good bit. The 25-06 is a little over max capacity for a 25 caliber bullet, and even Ackley says you won't see much of an improvment (if not worse), but will see better case life. Forget the loading manual crap about the .257 WBY.! This round can really be pushed at least another 150 to 200 fps faster than most manuals claim. 3350fps is easilly obtainable with it, and still be safe. The downside is that the cases are expensive, and often hard to come by. Before I'd build a .257 mag, I'd do a .270 mag (or better yet a 7mm WBY mag).

    You might want to give this some thought. All Ackley cases have the same taper per inch, and the 25-06 and a .257AI have the same case head diameter. So the shoulder diameter will be very close on both rounds (less than .0015"). Both have the 40 degree shoulder as well. So why not just take the 25-06 reamer and run it in a little short for a .257AI headspace, but with the long 25-06AI neck! This round would be fantastic at the minimum. Should push a 120 grain bullet to 3100 fps. Yet fit in your magazine well very well with very long bullets. For dies you simply take 25-06AI full length die and cut it off at the bottom. Take a .257 Roberts Forster seater and run the 25-06 reamer in the sleeve till it's at the right head space depth.
    gary
     
  4. gr8whyt

    gr8whyt Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, tricky. I've had it up to here with magnums. I've shot a 7mm Rem Mag for more years than I care to admit. That's the action I'm having re-barreled. And I have a 300 win mag that I shoot when I'm in the mood for some recoil and when I need to get rid of lots of powder. But it is my elk go-to gun. But I need something fun to shoot. So I think this .25-06 AI is gonna be sweet.

    Maybe some 100gr Nosler Ballistic Tips spinning out there about 2600fps+ should be some good antelope and deer medicine. Maybe even a Big Horn ram if I ever get luck enough to draw a tag.

    I'm having that 700 Rem action blueprinted and fitted with a Lilja 1 in 10 twist 3-groove tube at 27" and fitted to a B&C Medalist stock with nice Williams bottom metal and a Jewell trigger. My 'smith is top notch and I'm hoping this rifle will make some small groups if make it some ammo it likes and I do my part.

    -- gr8whyt
     
  5. backwoods83

    backwoods83 Well-Known Member

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    cases are harder to find for a 257 weatherby but they can be made from 7mm mag, and they factory 257 weatherby (norma) brass will live longer than most any 25-06, and to do a 257rob AI ballistically copys a 25-06, with a medium weight rifle in 257 wby mag neither of the other come close with equal barrel lenght, show me a 25-06AI that will blast a 100 grn out just under 3800fps from a 26" pipe!
     
  6. Nomosendero

    Nomosendero Well-Known Member

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    To each his own, but the 25-06AI has worked well for me. I have a Senero with the 26" tube, Kirby Allen did the work, along with a skim bed, trueing the receiver, sako ext, etc.

    Mr. Ackley was very intelligent & we owe him alot, but what he said about the 25-06 simply is not valid today, along with the 6.5-06AI & a couple of others. We all know why, RL25, IMR7828,
    Retumbo & many other powders were not avail. then & has changed the level of usefullness for certain rounds dramatically & the 257 Wea. is another good example.

    I think the Roberts AI is fine, but if a younger shooter does not allready have a Roberts or the brass, I would never advise them to get one. Why go that route with the factory 257Rob ammo being very hard to find in some areas & thus hard to use to fireform or load new brass (you must order), only to wind up with a load that nearly matches (but not quite) a 25-06 handload.
    If you want a smaller, shorter 22" tube deal I guess it could be a Rob, but I use other cal. for woods rifles & think of 25's a windy day?larg Var. rifle & a preferred tool for Antelope/Mule Deer & some Whitetail situations.

    There are for me at least some advantages of the 25-06AI over the Wea. Like BW83 said, you aren't going to match 257wea. potential with the 25-06AI, but I saw that getting a velocity halfway between the 25-06 & FACTORY 257wea. loads was a good place to be for me at least.
    The spread of 257wea. & safe, book handloads for the 25-06 is roughly 250fps, I easily get in the middle & a wee bit closer to Wea. fact, in fact, all with good brass & able to shoot fast 25-06 & a match chamber. I am pleased.
     
  7. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    I have been shooting a 257 Wby in a 8 twist barrel and 130 gr Wildcat VLD bullets. So far I have killed two cow elk and a deer in the 450 yard range and an antelope beyond 1000 yards. I have the barrel threaded for a brake but never use it. Recoil is too mild to need it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2011
  8. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    .257AI will group better than the .257 mag or the 25-06 due to a better case design alone. But more importantly is that it works just fine with a 24" or a 26" barrel. Cases are 57mm in length, and fit the magazine well much better when using the long VLD bullets so popular on this board. P.O. Ackley says many times over that an improved 57mm case will shoot just as fast a the 30-06 case length. A 25-06AI will go no faster than 3350 fps with a jet pack attached. A .257 mag will go about 3550 fps with a lot more powder. A .257AI will do about 3300 fps as well. Now I too familure with the .257's and the 25-06 and .257 mags, and have chronographed a lot of rounds thru these barrels. Have shot them thru everything from 28" barrels down to 22" barrels. With the exception of the Weatherby and some super slow powders there's just not much speed in there to be gained. Whatkind of chamber pressures are you talking? Bob Hutton claimed to have got 3800 fps with the 100 grain bullet in the 25-06AI, but no one has ever came close to duplicating these speeds. Ackley upfront says 3400fps maybe, but probably 3300 is more realistic.
    gary
     
  9. gr8whyt

    gr8whyt Well-Known Member

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    Nomo, what do you do for brass for that fine 25-06AI? Use factory 25-06 loads? Or fireform some new brass? Does it matter? Thanks for any insights along these lines.

    -- gr8whyt
     
  10. Nomosendero

    Nomosendero Well-Known Member

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    I also hear that a 308 will group better than a 300WM, I shoot both & I am not too sure the 300WM does so bad compared to a 308, esp. after 800 yds. After Kirby worked over my Sendero
    25-06AI, .25-.40 MOA groups were common with the 125 Wildcat, 100 & 115BT. Would the Bob give me .15-.30 MOA instead, who knows, but I have seen that a broad range of rounds will produce very small groups with a good barrel, good loads & a good shooter, so much so that it gets hard to tell which cartridge groups better. I am merely guessing, but if Buffalobob took
    an Antelope at a 1000yds with his 257 Wea, it likely groups OK. So, it might be inherently accurate.

    I don't know where a guy named Bob Hutton comes into this, but I saw where backwoods83 stated he got 3800 with the 100 in a 257 Wea.
    , that seems a little fast, but I don't know the particulars of his rifle.

    "Ackley upfront says 3400 maybe, but 3300 is more realistic." Did Mr. Ackley have access to RL 22, 25, Retumbo, Magnum powder, etc. ? Again, it seems strange to talk about what Ackley could get out of a given round before these slower propellants were invented. I do know that tons of 257 wea. rifles with 26" tubes get 3600 & change with a 100 gr. easily, some will beat that a little. I load for two 26" std. 25-06's & 3350-3400 is no trick with RL25 & one likes the 115BT at 3200. With the 25-06AI I can get 3475-3500 with the 100, 3300 with 115 & 3200 with 125 Wildcat. But then again, my powders & primers are not Woodstock era either.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2011
  11. backwoods83

    backwoods83 Well-Known Member

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    My rifle, Remington 700 LSS Mountain Rifle, factory gun remington chambered in 07. it chronied right at 3685-3690fps with factory Weatherby 100 grain spires, put 75.5grns of reloder 25 behind 100 grain swift with 3.300" oal and see if it doesn't come out at around 3770-3780fps and it will shoot 1/2 moa and less and isn't bedded. That rifle is for looks its grey laminate and stainless, it has silver weaver bases with stainless rings, and a silver 4.5-14x50 Zeiss conquest, its a looker, doesn't get used much anymore, when it did it had a 8-32x56 NXS on it, the longest kill shot come up 721yrds on the range finder. I have been tinkering with my newest build, 270 wby mag on a savage 116 action with a 28" McGowen pipe, my last testing was 74grns reloder 22 behind 140 accubond at 3.335" oal was showing me 3430fps with no signs of pressure, now thats flat shooting with a .496bc
     
  12. Nomosendero

    Nomosendero Well-Known Member

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    RL 25 really kicks butt in big 25's doesn't it!

    Good info on the 270Wea. I will be working with a 264 soon, expecting good things.
     
  13. Nomosendero

    Nomosendero Well-Known Member

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    I did shoot some Rem. factory, fireformed fine, but the Rem brass I used does not have case life of Win.
    Also, I learned not to used Rem brass if it had been loaded a few times, it becomes brittle.

    The absolute best results have been with New Winchester brass or Win. factory ammo, good 25-06 brass.
     
  14. backwoods83

    backwoods83 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I tried many powders in 257 wby 7828ssc retumbo H1000 4831 but reloder 25 gives the best consistency and velocity, 7828 will out run it but accuracy flat out sucks, I even use reloder 25 in standard 25-06 with heavy bullets 115-120grn. Reloder 22 works better in the slightly larger bore 270 wby and 4831 isn't bad but a little erratic. Well whether it be a 264 win mag or necked up 257 wby or 6.5x300 wby I'm sure you will be pleased, 264s are awesome my 6.5x284 is probably my favorite rifle to shoot!