25 wssm or 25 wssm improved 40 degree or 25-284

[reed mosser]

I have been throwing around the idea of another long range target shooting barrel. I thought the 25 cal bore would be well suited for what I want. I saw a reamer for the 25 wssm improved and thought it might work well with either Richards 140's for target work or Noslers for hunting. I know the 6.5 wssm imp are about on par with 6.5-284's with 140's. I also thought that you could get away with a shorter barrel to achieve max velcioty in wssm case. I would think a 27 inch barrel would be max for a case like this but I could be wrong. Do you think the case is worth improving. Do you think velcioties would be close to 25-284 or 25-06. I would think the 25 wssm would be easy on barrels and should be very consistant. But with 25-284 uses laupa brass. I need some help just tossing around some ideas for a new project.

 

[brian b]

Reed,
After using Norma and Lapua brass on several custom gun projects this is a no doubt question for me . 25-284 and throw the wssm brass in the round file. (just as a side note I found a totally custom 25-284 in a little gun store a few month's ago ,I went home to get some money to buy it but when I went back they had allready sold it thinking first one with the cash wins)
B

 

[reed mosser]

laupa brass is the best there is no doubt. I just got a bug after a 1000 yrd benchrest shooter daughter kicked my but with a 6.5 wssm improved. I don't know how much brass prep he did but it would shoot. The only thing I was thinking was a more efficent case that would use less powder and get good velcioty. But winchester brass is not laupa. decisions decisions

 

[Mikecr]

A standard 25wssm would be right between a 25-06 & 25/284.
The 25-284 would waste barrels quickly. The 25wssm brass I've measured is as good as my Lapua 6br brass. It's just way too thick. Too thick to mess with improving in 25cal(if you plan to have enough barrel life left to actually use it). The 25wssm is fine for use as is.
I have a couple barrels chambered in 6.5wssm, and can't wait to use em. I'm blowing the shoulder 5deg steeper on it, just to bump capacity enough to compete. One barrel is just for fireforming/load developement.
For a 25cal, you would ruin a good thing to change capacity.

 

[reed mosser]

I never messed with the wssm brass, if it weighed out close to laupa, than it is much better than the 7 wsm I been using. Im not real worried about barrel life. I want to be able to drive the 25 cal 140's close to 3000 fps. I also want to get good speed out of the Nosler 100 and 110 and 115gr for hunting. How bad is it to fireform the brass of the wssm. I know its thick and tough as nails. I was going to get a reamer with a tight neck. What case captivity would the improved version be? I thought it might be from 52 to 55 grains of powder.

 

[Mikecr]

First off, I made a mistake in my post above. I appologize.
The 25 wssm is not between the others, but much less in capacity. Even in an improved form, it would be pushing it to get 3000fps in a 140gr 25cal.
The 25/284 would probably be a better choice for you. Way way less work. Unless you want a short action.

 

[reed mosser]

I think your right. I just saw the 6.5 wssm improved shooting the 140's near 3000 fps and it sparked a interest. They were probably shooting hot loads. The only reason I was thinking wssm imp was the chance of maybe less barrel to get maximum speed, and more efficent case. It is a toss up. The 25-284 and laupa brass is already a proven cartidge and a proven performer. I am always pushing the enevlope put its more troble than its worth a lot of times. Thanks

 

[littlebrotherc]

Hello
I'm new to this form so please bear with me. I currently shoot a 25 WSSM in an AR style rifle with match grade barrel. I Have looked at all the commercial bullet makers and I cannot find a 140gr in .257. Also in all the loading books using a 120gr the most they can squeeze is about 2900. Could you possibly be talking about the WSM case and not the WSSM? The WSSM case is 1.670" long the WSM is much longer.
Thanks for the clarification.

 

[ol mike]

The bullet maker is/was Richard Graves -wildcat bullets -a custom bullet maker who's company is in the process of being sold.

Also had a 257cal. 156gr rbbt bullet these will not stabilize in the normal 1-10" twist barrels .

 

[littlebrotherc]

Thanks Mike

For the info on the 140 gr. I think that the 140 is to large for the 25 WSSM.

So far as using the 25WSSM for longer range shots, what is the acceptable F/S and energy needed to be acceptable? I know from ballistic tables the 25 WSSM using a Berger 115gr at 3076 f/s will be moving at 2061 f/s and have 1084 ft/lbs of energy at 600 Yd's. It also will drop 59.3 inches when zeroed at 200 Yd's. Is this acceptable for Mule and Whitail? How much further out might I push it?

Thanks

 

[Shawn Carverelli]

I wish I'd opted for a 25-284. 15 years ago I turned rem 700 220 swift into a 6-284 with lilja 1-8 twist. Working up loads I blew up 107 Sierra MK's on the way to the target. velocity/ twist proved too much using rl22. .
My gunsmith used a reamer with too much freebore keeping me from loading ammo around the lands. He recut the chamber noticing throat erosion with only 250 rounds down the barrel fir load development .
25-284 would be a bit better....need better. 257 bullets though

 

[sable tireur]

May 15, 2005

Lots has changed since then; new bullets, new powders, same old brass from Winchester...

The folks who brought us the Blackjack 131 grain ACE Match Bullet revitalized the world of .25 caliber shooting. So much so that Berger, the behemoth of bullet manufacturing these days, managed to design and bring forth both the 133 gr. and 135 gr. bullets for the longer range .25 caliber fans. The downside to all of the components supply has been the epidemic and the supply chain. Blackjack hasn't been heard from for approximately 2 years with no indication that Sierra will resume manufacturing of the Blackjack until all of their inhouse needs are met. Sad situation for a bullet of this excellence but Berger has both bullets available through a few sources and both work quite well in my testing.

I am aware that there are ardent supporters who advocate for improving every cartridge no matter the least degree of improvement. I am not one of them. Improving cartridges such as the 25 WSSM is a waste of powder and bullets let alone the barrel life to create them. Modern case design should preclude this waste but the brainwashing continues to defeat common sense. Yes, case growth can be deterred but how much more than from the more modern 30 degree shoulder? What is the significance?

The WSSM case capacity itself is in the same ballpark as any .25 cal. cartridge based on the .308 Win. or .30 T/C cartridge case. It is significantly less than the .25-06 and it's variations or the .25-284 on the .284 case.

The greatest difficulty encountered by WSSM shooters is magazine feeding. This was almost resolved by Winchester with the advent of the WSSM action. Unfortunately the action design alone failed to correct everything the public demanded and is now a part of history. Good fortune shines on those gunsmiths who actually understand the geometry of feeding and can make some adjustments in existing magazines. Otherwise we are left using single shots as our main platform.

The good news is that the .25 caliber is alive and well and waiting for the rest of the component world to catch up.