25-06 vs 25-06AI

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by MontanaRifleman, Jan 16, 2010.

  1. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,068
    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Hey guys.... I currently have a Sendero 25-06 (26" barrel) and a smith who borescoped it for me told me it was severly firecracked. It still shoots very well but I'm expecting it to go south anythime which brings me to the subject at hand.

    I will be getting it rebarreled and have been considering consider the standard 25-06 and the AI version - haven't made my mind up yet. I'm getting very good velocities now. 3500 fps with RL17 and 110 ABs and 3400 fps with RL17 and 115 Ballisitc Silvertips. Being the speed freak I am, I wouldn't mind some more velocity. If I can only expect another 100 fps out of it, I'll probably stick with the standard chamber. But if I can get 150 fps or more, I may go with the AI. And yes I know, it will lead to faster throat errosion. I'll be going with a Lilja 3 groove barrel that have a good rep for better barrel life and hopefull some GJ will help.

    I'm also considering a 6.5-06AI a some point as well. I might do it as a switch barrel option on one of my 300 RUM Sendero platform. That way I could have a couple of smaller cal PD regulators to shoot side by side. If I get both in AI I can use the same bushing dies for reloading.

    Any experience and opions are much appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Mark
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Crane

    Crane Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    300
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2005
    I haven't chrono'ed my 25-06AI yet but based on the drops and a ballistic program I'm getting 3600ish with IMR7828 and 110 Accubonds. My barrel is a 5R Rock. You could likely push a 3 groove Lilja faster with less pressure.

    The only reason I didn't go to the 257STW is I felt it would be a waste in a 26 inch barrel but if I had it to do all over again it would be the STW and at least 28 inches because I'm a speed freak myself. Having said that my original intent was to build more of a carry rifle anyway but since you already have a Sendero platform the STW sounds sweet.
     

  3. Popapi

    Popapi Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    732
    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    3600ISH that's cooking with a 110 Accubond in a AI.
     
  4. BillR

    BillR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    409
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    I'm running a .25-06 AI on a 1in10 Hart barrel with a tight neck chamber. One thing I would never do again is to make one with a tight neck. Real PITA to have to turn everything prior to fire forming. Gun IS very accurate though with just about anything I put down the tube. Actually the gun is a way better shooter than I will ever be. But with all that said I do have to admit it has taught me more about shooting and reloading than I ever thought I would know or needed to know.
    I also am a speed freak to a certain degree. And a lover of the .25-06 of which I have owned in my lifetime at least 7 of them and 5 at one time. First one was a custom built one prior to Remington even coming out with their version. It also taught me to reload. Second one was one of the first rifles that Remington built in .25-06 which I shot so much I just plain wore out the barrel.
    With all that history though I found one thing. I could push the .25-06 as hard as I could but always came up wanting just a few more FPS and just a bit flatter trajectory. Made my first 700 yd kill with that Remington at 700 yds and became hooked on long range.
    Since I finally bit the bullet so to speak and went to the .25-06AI I have been very pleased as I seem to be running less pressure and getting just a bit more out of my loads. Trying different powders and bullets I find I am even more enamored with the caliber but I'm still wanting just a bit more. My search for a new powder that would give it to me took me away from IMR4831 to H4831SC to a Retumbo loading which is very accurate but still lacking and I'm now looking into IMR 7828 which could prove to be the powder I"m looking for which if it works might just get me that trajectory I'm looking for.
    Now with all that boring rhetoric I will say this. Don't ever fell bad about building a rifle in .25-06AI as it is an awesome cartridge and though it might be just a bit of a barrel burner 1500 rounds does not seem out of reach and could prove to be one of the best Antelope/Deer cartridges of all time (my opinion :) )
     
  5. mike33

    mike33 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    898
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2008
    Im a quartetbore shooter myself and your getting excellant vel. Im shooting imr-4831 out of my 25-284 100 gr. sierra fb around 3450. Im going to try some rl-17 but was wondering what you compare rl-17 and 15 too
    250 ackley
    25x284
    257 whby
    25 wsm ( in building process )
    Mike
     
  6. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,347
    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Hi Mark.....I shot thousands of rounds thru a 25-06 and re-barreled it to 6.5-06 A.I. It was a great rifle. I killed 25+ elk with it as well as a lot of other game. I was able to get almost 3100 out of a 26" barrel and a 140 nosler. I completely shot that barrel out and now have my third barrel on it. It's a 26" Lilja three groove chambered in my 6.5 Sherman. I can tell you that it is far the best of the three. The A.I. case holds about 6% more powder than the std. case. My Sherman case holds 11% more and the cases last forever! I'm getting up to 3200 with the 140's with great accuracy. I have a once used reamer that would like to do some more work:D. Let me know if you are interested......Rich
     
  7. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,347
    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    OOps forgot your other ??? I doubt you would get 150 extra feet with the A.I. case loaded to equal pressures......Rich
     
  8. killahog

    killahog Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    175
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    I had Bob White from (Theshooterscorner) build me a 25-06AI with a 284 neck. I am shooting 100g sierria matchkings at 3366 fps using 4831sc. I have killed a bucket full of prairy dogs at 750+ a few at over 800 and 1 hit but not killed at 1100 yards. I am getting 2 shot groups of around .300 at 100 yards with a SD in around 6 or 8. I built the rifle to be a solid 500 yard groundhog gun but it has proven to be much more than that. I probably kill 3 out of every 4 groundhogs I shoot at with 1 shot at 500 yards.
     
  9. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,068
    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Thanks for all the feedback guys, much appreciated!

    Crane, the 25 STW would be a smoker but I think it would be just too overbore and I dont favor belted cases. I've read some intertesting stuff about I7828 and it might be worth trying.

    BillR, thanks for the tip on the neck chambering. I'll keep it in mind. I tried Retumbo in the 25-06 which gave me 3300 fps with 110 AB's but RL17 beat it by 200 fps with the same bullets and good accuracy.

    Mike33, I would compare RL17 to H4350 but much faster velocities. I would recommend about 1/2 to 1 gr higher starting load with RL17 than H4350.

    Rich, What is the 6.5 Sherman? It sounds interesting but I like the idea of going with the 65.-06 AI because it matches the 25-06 AI kind of and I can use the same dies. If I got a lot of 500 Lapua brass I could separate in half by wieght. Would I get 6% more capacity or 6gr more capacity? From what I can gather it might be 6 grs and 10-11% more capacity??? Since you've shot both extensively you should know. I may be interested in that Sherman reamer, ya never know. :) Thanks for the offer.

    Thanks for the input and keep it coming. Also read somewhere that the sharper AI shoulde was better for case life???


    Mark
     
  10. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,347
    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    The Sherman case is a blown out .270. At first glance it looks just like the A.I. case but if you put them side by side there is an obvious difference. Both share the 40 degree shoulder but the Sherman shoulder is farther forward and there is less taper in the body. I was able to do this by taking advantage of the longer .270 case and still maintain a good neck (.300). The case capacity is 11%. It holds a little over 70 grs. of h2o to the base of the neck and 74-75 grs full. I can push a 140 at 3200+ with a 26'' barrel but thats a little hot. 3150 is fine! With a 30" barrel I have no doubt 3350 to 3400 would be attainable:D:D.....Rich
     
  11. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,068
    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Rich, you've really got me looking at the Sherman. What would the 25 cal version be called? The 257 Sherman? I wonder how much more throat wear I would be seeing? Need to check on the availability and price of dies.
     
  12. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,347
    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Mark......Call Lonnie Hummel at Hornady ((308) 382-5761. He has the specs on my case and is a great old guy to talk to. He can build you a custom set for under $200. I think the 40 degree shoulder and the longer neck help cut down on throat erosion over some cases with similar capacity. Lonnie thinks it is a well designed case, in fact I used him as a sounding board when I designed it. I also have a 300 Sherman that I'm working on right now. I have a reamer for it as well. The 25 would be a real screamer for sure. .257 Sherman would be fine:D:D.....Rich
     
  13. Aldon

    Aldon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    718
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2009
    Rich,

    I like Mark have an older Sendero 25-06 that is looking more and more like I will need to rebarrel. I will know once I get back to the range again.....it may have been excessive Moly build up that was causing my Berger non molyed rounds to not be consistant....time will tell.

    Your Sherman wildcat seems special.

    What Barrel manufacturer, twist, groove would you go with if you were rebarrleing again? Would 30 inches be ideal length?
     
  14. Crane

    Crane Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    300
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2005
    Would this be sorta like a 25 Gibb's?