25-06 reload data

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by freak007, Sep 4, 2012.

  1. freak007

    freak007 Member

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    Ok, I am preparing to begin load development for my Savage 25-06 (26" barrel). I have never reloaded before.

    I will be using Norma brass with 110gr accubonds. I have decided to start with H4831 for powder.

    Nosler's website lists 47 grains as a start point, with 52 as a max (and most accurate) for the 110AB
    Hogdgon lists 51 grains as a start and 54.3 as max for 100gr partition
    Hogdgon lists 48 grains as a start and 52 as a max for 117gr hornady SPBT

    I also found an old post on another site that shows Quickload calculating a max load of 57.2 grains behind the 110AB (developing 63,000 PSI in a 24" barrel)



    Obviously it is dangerous and foolish to start at a max load. Most sources I have seen suggest starting at 10% under max and working up, but that puts the Quickload starting point near/over the max suggested by Nosler and Hogdgon...

    This is where I ask for advise from those more experianced than myself...

    What gives? What is the REAL max load for this cartridge/bullet/powder?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Nomad

    Nomad Banned

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    Jul 1, 2007
    IMR 4350 48.5, 117gr hornady or speer 120 gr, win brass prepped primer pocket and flashhole,
    and CCI LRP. good load
     

  3. Korhil78

    Korhil78 Well-Known Member

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    I use H4831SC which is the same thing as H4831 but smaller granules of powder for easier metering. I use 54gr of H4831SC for my load with Norma Brass and 115 gr Berger VLD bullets.

    I would start at around 52 gr of H4831 and work your way up. You can do so in .5 gr increments and see what gives you the best results and then work from there.
     
  4. freak007

    freak007 Member

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    Ok, I went and looked through Hogdgon's info again... It seems their data is VERY conservative...


    With the 100 grain Partition their starting load of 51 grains is listed at 46,800 CUP, the max of 54.3 is listed at 51,400 CUP

    With the SPBT their starting load of 48 grains is listed at 43,000 CUP and their max of 52 is listed at 50,900 CUP.

    SAMMI spec is 63,000psi (approximately 53,000 CUP)


    It looks as if Quickload's max would be correct... Or am I off in left field somewhere?
     
  5. Topgun 30-06

    Topgun 30-06 Well-Known Member

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    Always remember that when you are reading numbers out on a site that the poster may have typed an incorrect number. It's best to back off the max charge in a manual just like you mentioned when starting out and watch for telltale signs as you go up the ladder towards what they show as max. It may or may not be that in your particular rifle. I load 50 grains of IMR 4350 behind my Hornady 117 grain BTSPs for my Ruger 25-06 and they are less than 1/2 MOA and are deadly. I could have gone much higher, but stopped with that accuracy and they're still running right at 3000fps. I also use their 100 grainer in my .243 with IMR 4064 and 150 grainers with IMR 4350 in my 30-06s with similar results.
     
  6. 112Savage

    112Savage Well-Known Member

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    If you don't have paper load manuals or one of the CD's like Sierra's interactive load manual, then Hodgdon's online manual is a good place to start. Not all of the bullets are listed and neither are all the powders. However, the starting loads are conservative, and the max speeds are pretty achievable in a standard length barrel (24"). Nosler also has an abridged "loading manual" online. Start at their low suggestions and let your rifle tell you where it is and isn't right.

    I realize that you already have looked at these to gather information; but as I look at the numbers they all make sense except for " I also found an old post on another site... Quickload calculating a max load of 57.2 grains behind the 110AB (developing 63,000 PSI in a 24" barrel)" I don't trust that load at all because it wasn't published by a reputable source. You only get one set of eyes, one nose, one face, and one life; don't mess it up because somebody said it was fine on their quickload. Going above max load listed in a book is usually ill advised by the load manuals, but if your chronograph and brass/primers are saying you havn't made it to high enough pressures (as compared to load manuals) then you can keep going 'til you achieve that.
    Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2012
  7. RT2506

    RT2506 Well-Known Member

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    I have been shooting the 25-06 a long time. Best deer killing round I have ever fired. I have learned that it likes to be pushed almost to the max to do its thing. One of the 4350s or 4831s will usually get you what you want. Two of the best loads that I have ever found that I use for deer is with Sierra Pro Hunter 117 gr bullets. Either 52 grs H-4831, CCI BR2 primer and Rem case, or 49 grs IMR 4350 with a CCI 250 primer and Rem case usually shoots really well in most rifles. I am hearing good things about Retumbo and the 110 Accubond. With H-4831 and the 110 I would start about 52 grs and work up in .5 grs at a time and do the same with from 49 grs with IMR 4350 until you find accuracy without too much pressure. I have not shoot any of the 110 ABs but I have shot just about everything else from 100 to 120 gr in actually killing deer over the past 30 years, 20 of which I did crop damage control, and my pick of bullets is still the plain Jane flat base 117 Sierra Pro Hunter. Super accurate and it just drops deer in their tracks and they don't break your bank to get them. Just some of my findings. Hope they help you.
     
  8. SBruce

    SBruce Well-Known Member

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    Current rifle: 24" remington factory barrel. ~3100'/sec with 53 grns H4831SC, CCI 200, Nosler 115 Ballistic Tip seated .010 off the rifleing as determined by RCBS Precision Mic.

    This particular gun shot just as good, if not slightly better with 51 grns of powder (all else the same as above), but it wasn't quite the velocity I was after.

    Sorry, not "long range" groups, but this gun wasn't bought with that intention.
    I've wanted to try the 110 Accubonds, but haven't gotten around to it. 50 - 51 grns powder would be an ok starting point IMO. Good Luck.:)
     

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  9. Popapi

    Popapi Well-Known Member

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    TAG
     
  10. freak007

    freak007 Member

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    Ohh I absolutely understand that...



    I understand what you are saying, and I have spent far too surviving while others try to kill me in foreign countries to just do it myself in a moment of stupidity. That is why I am asking for advise from those with experience.

    I do have the Speer paper manual, the data it has for 115 grain is slightly (1-2 grains) hotter than what Nosler and Hogdgon are listing on their web sites for the same powder/similar bullets. I have been reading alot of info here, as well as Nosler's forum, reloaders nest, and load data. It seems most loads for the powder that I want to use and bullets in the 110-117grain class are running 52-54 grains, with a couple of them pushing into the 55-56 grain range.

    I am speculating, but based off the pressures and loads listed on Hogdgon's site, it seems that the lawyers may have gotten their hands in there. They know that there is a certain percentage of "reloaders" (namely Billy-Bob and his cousin Bobby-Joe) that are "fixin' to load sum huntin' rounds" so they will grab the manual and stuff the case with a "max" load of whatever the book says will give them maximum velocity and call it a day. It is because of this that the "max" listed load is "safe" in a very high percentage (95%+) of rifles.



    I actually found 2 different Quickload charts in my searching:


    Cartridge : .25-06 Rem.
    Bullet : .257, 110, Nosler AccuBond 53742
    Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.250 inch or 82.55 mm
    Barrel Length : 24.0 inch or 609.6 mm

    Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

    Matching Maximum Pressure: 63000 psi, or 434 MPa

    or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %


    These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
    C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
    loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
    that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
    and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
    USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

    133 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.

    Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
    % Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
    --------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Alliant Reloder-25 108.8 60.1 3.89 3297 100.0 63000 13024 1.093 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma MRP 100.8 58.4 3.79 3295 99.9 63000 13555 1.102 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N560 102.6 58.2 3.77 3290 98.1 63000 13876 1.097 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy) 105.5 62.4 4.04 3288 98.9 63000 13616 1.091 ! Near Maximum !
    PB Clermont PCL 517 105.3 62.4 4.04 3287 98.9 63000 13604 1.091 ! Near Maximum !
    SNPE Vectan SP 12 105.1 62.3 4.04 3286 99.0 63000 13582 1.091 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 7828 107.1 57.8 3.75 3281 98.5 63000 13463 1.086 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 7828 SSC 101.4 57.8 3.75 3281 98.5 63000 13463 1.086 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate MAGPRO 102.8 60.7 3.93 3275 96.9 63000 13911 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N570 110.0 64.4 4.17 3272 94.1 58913 14854 1.128 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2213 102.4 57.5 3.72 3266 98.4 63000 13331 1.084 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 102.9 57.7 3.74 3265 99.3 63000 13359 1.102 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-22 102.9 57.7 3.74 3265 99.3 63000 13359 1.102 ! Near Maximum !
    Raufoss RA15 102.9 57.7 3.74 3265 99.3 63000 13359 1.102 ! Near Maximum !
    Winchester WXR 105.6 58.0 3.76 3264 99.2 63000 13370 1.103 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma MRP 2 110.0 61.1 3.96 3258 98.6 60677 13797 1.124 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AP 2214 106.1 61.2 3.96 3254 98.7 63000 13125 1.084 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R905 104.1 57.4 3.72 3232 98.0 63000 13035 1.101 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2209 99.3 54.8 3.55 3229 99.1 63000 12703 1.089 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-19 99.8 55.4 3.59 3224 99.2 63000 12760 1.097 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H4350 95.1 52.5 3.40 3222 100.0 63000 12208 1.095 ! Near Maximum !
    Winchester 760 90.1 52.9 3.43 3219 99.8 63000 12441 1.104 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot Hunter 92.4 54.7 3.54 3217 100.0 63000 12355 1.104 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP14 ~approximation 100.5 55.8 3.62 3217 99.2 63000 12665 1.098 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP4 ~approximation 97.8 54.3 3.52 3201 99.0 63000 12453 1.097 ! Near Maximum !
    Raufoss RA4 97.8 54.3 3.52 3201 99.0 63000 12453 1.097 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 204 94.7 54.3 3.52 3201 99.0 63000 12453 1.097 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S365 96.8 53.5 3.47 3201 100.0 63000 11497 1.115 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma URP 95.0 52.2 3.38 3198 100.0 63000 11860 1.109 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H4831 SC 101.9 57.2 3.71 3198 97.3 63000 12630 1.094 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H4831 106.0 57.2 3.71 3198 97.3 63000 12630 1.094 ! Near Maximum
    !
    Bofors RP19 ~approximation 95.0 52.2 3.38 3198 100.0 63000 11857 1.109 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H1000 110.0 60.4 3.92 3198 98.1 59635 12959 1.112 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N550 92.3 52.4 3.39 3198 100.0 63000 11993 1.112 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4831 102.8 54.7 3.54 3194 100.0 63000 12022 1.116 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 4350 98.4 52.2 3.39 3192 100.0 63000 11831 1.126 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4350 99.7 53.0 3.44 3191 98.5 63000 12361 1.098 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S385 99.9 56.1 3.64 3183 99.6 63000 12195 1.117 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot BigGame 91.6 50.9 3.30 3177 100.0 63000 11452 1.106 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R904 98.7 54.0 3.50 3173 98.3 63000 12162 1.098 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 3100 108.9 57.2 3.70 3167 100.0 63000 11833 1.132 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N165 105.1 57.8 3.74 3166 99.5 63000 11898 1.108 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N160 105.3 56.0 3.63 3152 98.3 63000 11919 1.101 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R907 92.8 50.6 3.28 3148 99.6 63000 11674 1.106 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R903 92.7 49.5 3.21 3138 100.0 63000 10980 1.125 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S355 90.3 49.1 3.18 3136 100.0 63000 10995 1.117 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4064 90.1 47.2 3.06 3126 100.0 63000 10793 1.101 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon Retumbo 110.0 61.4 3.98 3116 99.3 51257 13373 1.198
    ADI AR 2218 110.0 65.1 4.22 3113 90.8 52576 14387 1.179
    Accurate 2700 91.0 52.2 3.38 3097 99.5 63000 11027 1.110 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 4064 91.6 47.5 3.08 3094 100.0 63000 10407 1.144 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N150 95.3 49.9 3.24 3089 100.0 63000 10353 1.117 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N140 92.0 49.1 3.18 3088 100.0 63000 10314 1.109 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori 24N41 110.0 65.1 4.22 3067 86.0 55565 12785 1.159 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N135 91.6 46.1 2.99 3044 100.0 63000 9635 1.125 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N170 110.0 60.4 3.92 3019 91.0 54192 12245 1.198
    Hodgdon H870 110.0 63.1 4.09 3007 92.1 46552 13522 1.263
    Hodgdon US 869 110.0 65.1 4.22 2972 89.4 47305 13025 1.251
    Hodgdon 50BMG 110.0 62.0 4.02 2849 77.3 44888 11847 1.286



    Cartridge : .25-06 Rem.
    Bullet : .257, 110, Nosler AccuBond 53742
    Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.250 inch or 82.55 mm
    Barrel Length : 24.0 inch or 609.6 mm

    Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

    Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa

    or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %


    These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
    C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
    loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
    that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
    and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
    USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

    136 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.

    Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
    % Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
    --------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Norma MRP 100.4 58.1 3.77 3280 99.8 62000 13526 1.110 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N560 102.1 57.9 3.75 3274 97.9 62000 13826 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
    PB Clermont PCL 517 104.9 62.2 4.03 3271 98.8 62000 13571 1.099 ! Near Maximum !
    SNPE Vectan SP 12 104.7 62.1 4.02 3271 98.8 62000 13550 1.099 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy) 105.0 62.1 4.02 3270 98.8 61872 13580 1.100 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 7828 SSC 100.9 57.6 3.73 3265 98.3 62000 13419 1.094 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate MAGPRO 102.3 60.4 3.91 3259 96.7 62000 13858 1.113 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2213 101.9 57.2 3.71 3250 98.2 62000 13284 1.092 ! Near Maximum !
    Raufoss RA15 102.4 57.5 3.72 3250 99.2 62000 13319 1.110 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-22 102.4 57.5 3.72 3250 99.2 62000 13319 1.110 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 102.4 57.5 3.72 3250 99.2 62000 13319 1.110 ! Near Maximum !
    Winchester WXR 105.0 57.7 3.74 3244 99.1 61723 13317 1.113 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R905 103.6 57.1 3.70 3216 97.8 62000 12989 1.109 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AP 2214 105.0 60.5 3.92 3214 98.3 60451 13031 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
    ADI AR 2209 98.8 54.6 3.54 3213 99.0 62000 12661 1.097 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 7828 105.0 56.7 3.67 3210 97.8 58670 13259 1.122 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-19 99.3 55.1 3.57 3209 99.1 62000 12716 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H4350 94.7 52.3 3.39 3208 100.0 62000 12182 1.103 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot Hunter 91.9 54.4 3.52 3202 100.0 62000 12325 1.112 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP14 ~approximation 100.0 55.5 3.60 3201 99.1 62000 12622 1.106 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S365 96.4 53.2 3.45 3187 100.0 62000 11472 1.123 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma 204 94.2 54.0 3.50 3186 98.9 62000 12409 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP4 ~approximation 97.3 54.0 3.50 3186 98.9 62000 12409 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
    Raufoss RA4 97.3 54.0 3.50 3186 98.9 62000 12409 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma URP 94.5 51.9 3.36 3184 100.0 62000 11832 1.117 ! Near Maximum !
    Bofors RP19 ~approximation 94.5 51.9 3.36 3183 100.0 62000 11829 1.117 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N550 91.8 52.1 3.37 3183 100.0 62000 11962 1.120 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H4831 SC 101.4 56.9 3.69 3182 97.1 62000 12580 1.102 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4831 102.3 54.4 3.52 3179 100.0 62000 11998 1.124 ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-25 105.0 58.0 3.76 3179 100.0 55436 12876 1.158
    Accurate 4350 97.9 52.0 3.37 3178 100.0 62000 11808 1.134 ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4350 99.2 52.8 3.42 3175 98.4 62000 12312 1.106 ! Near Maximum !
    Somchem S385 99.4 55.8 3.62 3168 99.6 62000 12162 1.125 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H4831 105.0 56.7 3.67 3166 96.9 60985 12528 1.111 ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot BigGame 91.1 50.6 3.28 3162 100.0 62000 11419 1.114 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R904 98.2 53.8 3.48 3157 98.2 62000 12114 1.106 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N165 104.7 57.5 3.72 3151 99.4 62000 11867 1.116 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N160 104.8 55.8 3.61 3137 98.1 62000 11874 1.109 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R907 92.3 50.3 3.26 3132 99.5 62000 11632 1.115 ! Near Maximum !
    Rottweil R903 92.2 49.2 3.19 3124 100.0 62000 10951 1.133 ! Near Maximum !
    Norma MRP 2 105.0 58.3 3.78 3088 96.8 50934 13282 1.217
    Accurate 2700 90.5 51.9 3.36 3082 99.4 62000 10990 1.118 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 4064 91.1 47.3 3.06 3081 100.0 62000 10374 1.153 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N570 105.0 61.5 3.98 3079 90.7 49133 14039 1.228
    Vihtavuori N150 94.8 49.7 3.22 3075 100.0 62000 10322 1.125 ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N140 91.4 48.8 3.16 3075 100.0 62000 10282 1.117 ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 3100 105.0 55.1 3.57 3052 99.7 55471 11644 1.201
    Vihtavuori N135 91.1 45.8 2.97 3031 100.0 62000 9602 1.134 ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H1000 105.0 57.7 3.74 3026 96.0 50167 12442 1.205




    My current load is a factory (discontinued) load that groups consistently at 1MOA (out to 300) and pushes the 110 Accubond at 3085. My goal is to achieve 3100+ with 1/2MOA. I am thinking a starting load of 50 gr and work in .5gr increments until I achieve my goal, see pressure signs, or determine that the components I have chosen are not working well together.
     
  11. str8shoot

    str8shoot Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    161
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    Jul 27, 2010
    I am currently using 53.5g H-4831sc with a 115 VLD in norma brass. I know this is under max but I don't remember where I hit pressure signs. This gives me 3030fps in a 26" sendero. I did try the accubonds but I used retumbo when I shot them. I have found the data for H-4831 to be more conservative than other powders. The nice thing about it is pressure tends to come more steady than other powders like retumbo. Retumbo will have no pressure signs as you work up, then suddenly spike. If you work up slowly with h-4831 and pay attention you should see pressure signs before they hit the dangerous zone. I did have pretty good accuracy with retumbo and the accubond.

    H-4831sc has been very consistent in 25-06 and 7mm rem for me. Other powders gives me more velocity but I'll take consistency over another 100fps every time.
     
  12. 112Savage

    112Savage Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    135
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2011
    I will agree with you that some of Hodgdon's reloading site seems quite a bit conservative. I however have run into high pressures in one of my rifles before I got to their max pressure (this was by using obviously heavier military brass in 308 win, so it was kind of expected). However, it just goes to show you that one little difference can change a reload dramatically.

    I'm sorry if I sounded like a ninny or something in my earlier post. I just think you should use multiple sources to get your starting point at which you feel safe and confident. Then, you should work up slowly in 0.5 grain increments until you see the speed you want, or the pressure signs you don't (erratic speed also counts here).