25-06 Bullet fail?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by rimfiresniper, Dec 7, 2012.

  1. rimfiresniper

    rimfiresniper Active Member

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    Ive never looked too much into bullet performance or post kill condition. I just started looking into it with these hanloaded hornady 117 gr btsp @ 3242. I've killed numerous white tail and some fallow deer out to 300 yards. All never took a step. I've always noticed the little pin hole entrance and have never gotten an exit. If I hadn't gotten lucky and made perfect shots I always wonder about the deer running off. Is this my bullet selection? I just shot a fallow @ 232yds and recovered this bullet. The core was with the jacket but separate.
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    Has this bullet failed?
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2012
  2. azsugarbear

    azsugarbear Well-Known Member

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    Nobody likes to hear about jacket separation from the lead core. While the bullet did fail to stay together, I wouldn't call your experience "bullet failure". If the separation occurs early on or midway through penetration, then bad things can happen. Since you found both the core and the jacket together near the off side of the animal, it is a safe assumption that separation occurred at the tail end of penetration. I would say the bullet performed well; especially in light of your previous DRT kills. You just found the limit of your bullet in terms of penetration. If larger animals were in your future, I would step up to a bonded core bullet such as the Nosler Accubond. But then, even those fail from time to time.
     

  3. rimfiresniper

    rimfiresniper Active Member

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    Hey thanks. What about just jumping into the all copper Barnes?
     
  4. azsugarbear

    azsugarbear Well-Known Member

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    We could kick up a firestorm with that question. So with that in mind, this is just my opinion on Barnes:

    They are near the top in my book when it comes to terminal performance. Never had a bad experience with bullet performance or losing game when shot. Most of the time, the animals simply drop and expire. My problem with Barnes has been accuracy. Most of my rifles just don't seem to group as well with them. Other shooters can get ragged one-hole groups, but not me.

    In hunting where short to medium shots are the norm, I take the gun that likes the Barnes (30-06). I don't care if it groups 1" at 100 yds. That's good enough for 300-400 yd shot. For precision LR shooting, those groups are just too big for my liking.

    The other problem (until recently), is that Barnes struggles to get decent BC's out of their bullet designs. They are hamstrung because no lead = lower weight = lower BC. Their new "long range" bullet gets close, but man are they expensive. For LR hunting, 2 of my rigs love the Berger VLD and the third won't have anything to do with the Berger, but loves the Accubond.
     
  5. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    Not to bad of a bullet failure if you got the critter and you don't get runners or splash wounds. I whacked a mule deer with a 25-06 and a 100 gr nos bt last year and it didn't do through either, but the thing dropped like I hit it in the head with a hammer. I prefer two holes, but if they don't move after the hit and the whole critter isn't burger, who really cares.
    I really like to step up in bullet weight and caliber for complete penetration. A smaller caliber really has a tough time digging through every time unless the bullet weight is really heavy; like a 140 grain 6.5mm.
     
  6. JackinSD

    JackinSD Well-Known Member

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    There are alot of thoughts on what a bullet should or shouldn't do. Stay together, complete pass through, fragment on the interior of an animal, etc, etc, etc. Probably more thoughts on this then where to shoot an animal.

    What works for you someone else will think is stupid. And what they do you will think the same of. Results are what count. Animal taken ethically (another trick word), means success.
     
  7. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    I bought one of the first factory 25-06's produced by Remington in 1970 and killed a lot of whitetails with it using both 100 and 117 grain Hornadys and they are very good deer bullets. Unless you use bonded or mono bullets, they will all come apart at some point. In fact, even the bonded ones do at times. This is not necessarily a bad thing and the fact that this bullet held up to that velocity says quite a bit. The Hornady interlock system, which that bullet is, has performed very well over the years and has even been used quite successfully even on larger game. It performs a lot like the tried and true Remington corelokt. They are both good non premium priced bullets. You also mentioned that the deer never took a step. This is not bullet failure IMO......Rich
     
  8. Korhil78

    Korhil78 Well-Known Member

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    I would not call it bullet failure either. It seems to have done the job every time for you. On your other question, Barnes makes an awesome bullet. I have used the 100 gr TSX to take many deer (whitetail and mule deer). All animals that I have shot with that bullet have been dead right there.
     
  9. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    Looks perfectly fine to me!! Who cares if it poops the core, then you have two good projectiles IMO. They also do a fabulous job on elk. I've come full circle on bullets like that, I used them when I first started and killed things fine then I drank the mono coolaid and then just got tired of mining copper, crappy accuracy and bullets deflecting out of animals and tried some bonded and just didn't see much of an improvement except I was getting more blood shot than I like. And finally came back to the tried and true cup and core bullet, nothing fancy just accuracy and vital thrashing performance!!!
     
  10. jakelly

    jakelly Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the bullet failed to operate according to design. The bullet still killed the animal, and I probably wouldn't quit using them b/c of that one incident. Decent cheap bullet. Wouldn't take them on a once in a lifetime tag elk hunt, either.
     
  11. rimfiresniper

    rimfiresniper Active Member

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    Hey thanks guys,ballot of good advice. Two things that are sticking out in my mind. I'm on a deer lease in south Texas where a deer of a lifetime could walk out any second. Not only whitetail but axis fallow and aoudad are on the menu. My father in law shot a axis that over 300 lbs. twice with his 7mag. Both real good kill shots with the trusty core lokts but the bastard didn't go down for a while. After the first 175 yd shot it bolted left no blood trail. We seen it standing in white rush. He got into the prone and fired another shot and it just stoves up. We could tell it was hit good so we waited for it to expire. Now let me back upand explain the situation with this 7mag and my father in law. He has had this rem 700 since the 80s and has killed hundreds of south Texas white tails. It makes the trip to Colorado for elk every year, and has been used on caribou at least three times in the brooks range. Along with bear and pronghorn. This gun and ammo combination has proven itself time and again. To see him about wanting to break the gun over his knee made me think about the core lokts that never exit with anything with size. But they always just dropped. And how we almost didn't see that axis just standing in the brush. If the bullet exited and caused a blood trail would have made it easier to track the animal if needed.

    Fast forward to my fallow. I read on here someone said that would be the biggest game they would shoot with that bullet. That fallow was about 200lbs. Makes me wonder if I shot that axis if I ever would have gotten a second chance. Even worse those tuff ass aoudad.

    With the info here and possibility of actually getting a shot on a denser animal I'm going to look into a different bullet.
     
  12. 7stw

    7stw Well-Known Member

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    All in all, you have to ask yourself, " at what point during the deers death did the bullet fail"? If you are getting DRT, or at least a SHORT trail, then even if the bullet spits it's core, it has done it's job. This has been a question in a lot of hunters minds for years, and that debate will continue for many more, but all can be answered by my opening question. Now, if that happens BEFORE you enter the cavity, or vitals, THEN you have a bullet failure that warrants a change. ( been there, done that )
    Bottom line is that if you are getting DRT in a large percentage, who carres if the bullet separates. Actually, that increases your destruction factor!!!! If you are worried about separation, go to a mono bullet. A Barnes TSX, TTSX, or my favorite the LRX, no more more separation. JMHO.......
    Bob
     
  13. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    If they all end up looking like that one after impacting the game animal, and they're accurate out of your rifle, then I'd be perfectly content. All those bullets need is to be shot.
     
  14. mrbofus

    mrbofus Well-Known Member

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    That looks EXACTLY like the Sierra 140 SPBT I recovered out of my Mulie this year using a 7mm/08. Shot was 175 yrds and the deer went 15yrds then tipped over. DRT
    Upon skinning the animal, there was 1 hole in no out hole and no heart left
    after recovering the bullet seperated like yours I thought it was kind wierd but didnt think much about it because I just harverted a 24" Mulie and a very short track job.
    Is that what the bullet are suppose to do? I dont know but
    The tags was filled and I will use that load again.

    MB