.243 win, AMAX versus Matchking...

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by green 788, Dec 8, 2005.

  1. green 788

    green 788 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    563
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2005
    I'm pretty new here, so please forgive me if this question has already been answered 1000 times... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    I checked the search function, and found nothing...

    Anyway, I'm shooting a .243 win with an 8 twist Douglas barrel. It's a very accurate Remington 788 action. By using 48.5 grains of Hodgdon Retumbo and Hornady's 105 grain AMAX, I'm getting some pretty respectable groups at 1000 yards, and have connected with one groundhog at 755 yards.

    I say "connected," because even though he went airborne when I hit him, and did a somersault before landing--he got back into his hole. I thought this could have been a fluke, but I then hit a smaller groundhog at 540 yards TWICE and he was still kicking when I got to him.

    Then, at about 170 yards this deer season, I KNOW I hit that small doe right near the kill zone, but it was able to easily run away.

    Is there something wrong with the 105 grain 6mm Hornady AMAX? I mean, you'd think it would at least make quick work of a groundhog, no? To that bullet's credit, the groundhog which I hit twice at 540 yards was pretty messed up--he was just clinging to life better than I would have ever thought...

    I've picked up my first box of 107 SMKs this evening, and figure 48 to 48.3 grains of Retumbo should get me at least 2900 fps from the 24" barrel.

    Just wondering what you guys think...

    Dan
     
  2. screech

    screech Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,193
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Wish I could talk for the 105 grain amax out of your 243 but I personally use the 87gr. vmax over reloader 19. It Shoots great out of my gun and has made 3 1shot kills on whitetails. But for your amax out of your 243 I dont know what to say. The only amax kill I have ever seen was a 162gr. out of a 7mm stw on a coyote. It hit him in the chest and gave the dog a much bigger but hole than his parents did /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     

  3. bailey1474

    bailey1474 <strong>SPONSOR</strong>

    Messages:
    1,922
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    The Amax is a very explosive bullet. I can't imagine that you would hit a deer in the vitals and have it run off. If anything, maybe you hit it in the shoulder and the bullet never entered the vitals. I wouldn't expect the 107 SMK to get very much expansion at all on chucks or groundhogs. especeially @ long ranges where the velocity is lacking.

    The 105 Amax is a better choice, in my opinion, for varmints than the 107 SMK. I've killed quite a few prarie dogs w/this bullet from my .243 between 500 and 1100 yds. Each time the bullet expansion was quite dramatic. Even over 1000 yds.
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Anybody had any experience shooting the 105 A-Max through a factory Remington barrel......just wondering if it will stabilize??
     
  5. green 788

    green 788 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    563
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2005
    Well... this is the kind of feedback I was looking for. Real world stuff that differs from my own experience. It could be that I've just had a string of bad luck with the 105 AMAX. And it is possible that the bullet struck that small deer in a less than opportune place, but the shot broke good, and zero checked good later that day. So I don't know.

    And get this: I forgot to mention the last groundhog I shot with the 105 AMAX at 438 yards. I hit him in through the mid section (according to the guy who was on the spotting scope) and he flopped around about five seconds and dragged himself back into his hole. The only groundhog that's been DRT (dead right there) on the shot was at a little over 200 yards.

    I would think that the 105 AMAX should be able to take full advantage of that ballistic tip and, yes, expand violently. So I'm at a loss here. I might entertain the thought that I actually missed that deer (I was bracing off the side of a small locust tree) but as close as he was, with my zero at 100 yards, the shot should have been no lower than an inch or so. And with three bad results on groundhogs, I can't help but think something's up.

    I don't know if the 1:8 barrel twist could have any significant effect on the bullet's terminal performance--but I have read military sniper publications that indicate that the slowest twist practical gives a better chance of bullet upset (and commensurate tumble) on live targets--FWIW...

    Dan
     
  6. coupalr

    coupalr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    218
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    I have a 6mm Rem and I use 87gr V-maxs which cause dramatic explosions on small game. The only A-max I have shot a deer with was out of my 300 win mag at 460 yards and he only took 3 steps.
     
  7. Charles A

    Charles A Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    480
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2001
    [ QUOTE ]
    I don't know if the 1:8 barrel twist could have any significant effect on the bullet's terminal performance--but I have read military sniper publications that indicate that the slowest twist practical gives a better chance of bullet upset (and commensurate tumble) on live targets--FWIW...



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Maybe with FMJ's, but with a bullet like the AMAX the faster the twist the faster the bullet comes apart. I really dont know what to say as Amax's are built like Ballistic Tips.
     
  8. Varmint Hunter

    Varmint Hunter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,519
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2001
    I've had exceptionally good performance with the 75gr A-Max in my 22-243AI. Every single groundhog that was hit with that bullet was DRT. They never moved an inch. I have shot them out to 900 yds with that combo.

    I do launch them at 3,670 ft/sec and that may have something to do with the impressive terminal performance.
     
  9. CPorter

    CPorter Active Member

    Messages:
    27
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2005
    I've tried the 105 gr Amax out off my Rem 700 VLS with 1:9.125 twist. While the bullets weren't keyholing at the target they weren't grouping well either. Running ballistic calculator on them they say I'd have to be able to get the bullet to 4000 fps for the bullet to fully stabilize. At a more realistic 2900 fps the twist required is at least 1:8...
     
  10. green 788

    green 788 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    563
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2005
    I must just be having a string of bad luck then. While I have had good results with 178 grain AMAX's from the .308 win, the 105's in the .243 are the only other AMAX's I've shot at game with.

    It does indeed defy logic that this bullet would not be performing any better for me. I'll not give up on it, but I'll probably have to wait for spring before I get to try it out on varmints again.

    I will say that it is quite accurate. Prone from a bi-pod with a rear bag, they look good at over 1000 yards...

    [​IMG]

    Practically no brass prep on that 7 shot group. Five shot groups at 1000 yards have looked even better.

    Dan
     
  11. gdragon34

    gdragon34 Member

    Messages:
    18
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    Forget the 107 SMK's. They're very accurate out of my 6br but absolutely horrible on groundhogs. I shot 2 of them and will never do it again. I'm considering the 87 V-max and the 105 A-max since I have them in stock.
     
  12. uncleB

    uncleB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    558
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    green 788,
    I tried to stay away but could not help myself, the 105gr A-Max has the lowest bc in its class plus it vaporizes on impact (or earlier) the 107gr SMK is a better shooting bullet in every aspect but does not vaporize
     
  13. Gary Kaney

    Gary Kaney Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    586
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2003
    Try the Hornady SST's I shoot the 129 SST out of my 260 and i can't say enough good things about them, as with the 142 SMK's. I believe they make it in 95 grn. for the 243.
     
  14. Aussie

    Aussie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    250
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    green 788 ,
    What velocity are you getting with 48.5 gns of Retumbo and the 105 A Max ?