Buckskinner
Well-Known Member
Spanking being about 300/ft second slower??? At least your honest about your bias...
243 or 25-06
- Thread starter mrb1982
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Spanking being about 300/ft second slower??? At least your honest about your bias...
Creedmoor shooter
Well-Known Member
Speed isn't everything..... BC is the name of the game. Load a 243 with a high bc 6mm bullet like a 105 berger hybrid or even better a 110 smk you can kiss the 115 VLD out of a 25-06 goodbye. That's nothing to do with being bias that's fact. Until they can come up with a better 1/4 bore bullet selection then to me there's no need for it.
The .243 for sure. Before I bought mine, I did months of research on the best all around varmint/predator cartridge and the .243 was at the top of every category. I have two main loads, and I am working on a couple others. My go to powder for the 70gr Nosler and 87gr VMAX is IMR 4451, it gets the lighter bullets going 3650fps and the 87s at 3430fps from a factory Rem 700 26" barrel. Accuracy with the 70s is 1/4 MOA and the 87s are around 3/8-1/2" at 100 yards and 3-4" at 700 yards. I use the 70s for shots under 250 yards where they are like lazers and then use the 87s for shots past that where the heavier bullet drifts less and hits harder.
I have experimented with the 105s, but my factory twist and lower elevation doesn't help me. Nonetheless, I got them going 3100fps with IMR 7828ssc but never tried for anymore velocity with the groups I was getting. With some H1000, Retumbo, RL26, or a couple others, 3150-3200fps is capable with the 105-108s in a 26"+ barrel. Run those ballistics and that's when you really see the .243 start to match and pull ahead of the bigger .25-06 even when it's running the 115 VLD at 3200fps. All while burning 8-10gr less powder than the bigger 25cal
I have experimented with the 105s, but my factory twist and lower elevation doesn't help me. Nonetheless, I got them going 3100fps with IMR 7828ssc but never tried for anymore velocity with the groups I was getting. With some H1000, Retumbo, RL26, or a couple others, 3150-3200fps is capable with the 105-108s in a 26"+ barrel. Run those ballistics and that's when you really see the .243 start to match and pull ahead of the bigger .25-06 even when it's running the 115 VLD at 3200fps. All while burning 8-10gr less powder than the bigger 25cal
The 95gr Berger Classic Hunters will stabilize in the factory Remington 9.125 twist, even in colder temps at 1200' elevation where I am at. With IMR 4451 I think 3200fps is doable with this bullet. I get 3430 with the 87gr and that is only 8 grains lighter than the 95 so I think I can get that speed. The 95gr Classic Hunter has a .434 BC which isn't too bad either. I personally think the 87gr VMAX is the better choice for coyotes and groundhogs though.
In a realistic comparison between these two cartridges, I think you will find that the 25-06 is always faster, usually by about 200 FPS, than the 243. And that speed shows down range with more energy, less wind drift, and significantly flatter trajectory. Just depends if you need the extra power that the 25-06 provides. I personally like the 25-06 because of the flatter trajectory and extra energy for deer hunting.
Below is a comparison of Ballistic Tips in the 243 and 25-06 as provided by current factory loads in Federal ammo. Before any one bad mouths the ammo, I have shot Federal ammo in 4 different cartridges and various bullets weights across chronographs and found their stated velocity and drop data to be pretty accurate. It does offer a good realistic comparison when trying to compare cartridges. So..... Below is data for the 243 95 Gr. Ballistic Tip and the 25-06 100 Gr. Ballistic tip.
Bullets:
243: 95 Gr Ballistic Tip BC= 378
25-06 100 Gr. Ballistic Tip BC= 394
Case Capacities:
243: 54.8 Gr. H20
25-06: 65.8 Gr H20
The 25-06 has 11 Gr. or 20% more capacity
Velocity:
25-06: 3220 FPS
243: 3025 FPS
25-06 is 195 FPS or 6.4% faster even with 5 gr. extra weight
Drop at 600 yards:
243: 73.1"
25-06: 61.7"
25-06 has 11.4" or 15.6% less drop
Wind at 10 MPH
243: 35.1
25-06: 61.7
25-06 has 4.8" or 13.7% less wind drift
Energy
243: 613 Ft lb
25-06: 793 Ft lb
25-06 has 180 Ft lb or a whopping 29.36% more energy
I think you will find this holds true across all bullets and powders you use with these two cartridges when comparing them in like barrel lengths.
For all of those using this or that powder to get extraordinary speeds from a 243, remember that there is a powder bullet combo that will work just as well for the 25-06. And in the end the 25-06 will be about 200 FPS faster and have all the benefits that come with that speed.
Below is a comparison of Ballistic Tips in the 243 and 25-06 as provided by current factory loads in Federal ammo. Before any one bad mouths the ammo, I have shot Federal ammo in 4 different cartridges and various bullets weights across chronographs and found their stated velocity and drop data to be pretty accurate. It does offer a good realistic comparison when trying to compare cartridges. So..... Below is data for the 243 95 Gr. Ballistic Tip and the 25-06 100 Gr. Ballistic tip.
Bullets:
243: 95 Gr Ballistic Tip BC= 378
25-06 100 Gr. Ballistic Tip BC= 394
Case Capacities:
243: 54.8 Gr. H20
25-06: 65.8 Gr H20
The 25-06 has 11 Gr. or 20% more capacity
Velocity:
25-06: 3220 FPS
243: 3025 FPS
25-06 is 195 FPS or 6.4% faster even with 5 gr. extra weight
Drop at 600 yards:
243: 73.1"
25-06: 61.7"
25-06 has 11.4" or 15.6% less drop
Wind at 10 MPH
243: 35.1
25-06: 61.7
25-06 has 4.8" or 13.7% less wind drift
Energy
243: 613 Ft lb
25-06: 793 Ft lb
25-06 has 180 Ft lb or a whopping 29.36% more energy
I think you will find this holds true across all bullets and powders you use with these two cartridges when comparing them in like barrel lengths.
For all of those using this or that powder to get extraordinary speeds from a 243, remember that there is a powder bullet combo that will work just as well for the 25-06. And in the end the 25-06 will be about 200 FPS faster and have all the benefits that come with that speed.
Creedmoor shooter
Well-Known Member
From a factory offering I guess I stand corrected. But if you take both they're best bullets with the 25 being the 115 VLD vs a 6mm 110 smk that's where the separation is. Also coming from a cartridge with 8-10 grains less capacity. So if we're talking factory offerings then yes the 25 is alittle better. But the op is also talking about a factory rifle with a cursed twist rate so if he wants a slight edge and use more powder then more power to him.
Well at the end of the day, I think the 243 is what is going to be the best for me at this point. I am looking for a 500 yard coyote rifle for the most part. I like the Remington's so I tend to stay down that path. The major differences in the two calibers done start to really separate until you start getting a ways past what I am looking for and I have other rifles that are better suited for that far anyways. The plus to going with the short action is that right now I have a 22-250 varmint contour that my 8 year old daughter has become quite fond of. So I am going to cut the stock shorter for her. Now in the future, if I want to swap her to something a little bigger for deer like, I can swap the stocks back and forth. Due to BC's and bullets, the 243 is substantially more powerful than a 22-250 really. I still really like the 25-06, and someday might have to own one of those too. But right now I think the 243 vls is for me.
TX Badger
Well-Known Member
Where are you shooting deer? For the heavy bodied WI deer I hunt I went with the additional punch you get with the 25-06. In the bullets that factory twits will stabilize, the 115 and 120 gr. in .257 vs 100 gr. .243 there is no contest. I run the 115 bergers at 3300. Have your daughter practice with your 22-250 if you are concerned about her developing a flinch. She won't notice the recoil at all when there's a deer in from of her. I know people say that the .243 is a great deer round, but the 25-06 gives you more margin for error. And we're talking about a kid shooting their first deer. There's no guarantee that shot placement will be perfect with all that excitement. With light bullets for coyotes the 25-06 is a lazer for your needs. The only down side is there are no common high BC bullets nor would a factory barrel stabilize them. I would like to have a .243, but it would not be a deer gun for me.
Excellent choice! I have only got one coyote at 285 yards with my .243 and an 87gr VMAX. I hit him high shoulder blowing out his shoulders and spine. Definitely not a load for hides, but it put him down like a bolt of lightning. Get yourself some Hornady 87s and some IMR 4451 and go from there. That combo is magic!
For deer, the 95gr SST with IMR 4451 or a 100gr Sierra GameKing and IMR 7828 or H1000 is a great load. I loaded my cousin a box of .243s with 95gr SSTs at 3150fps and he shot two deer with them and you would swear they were hit with a magnum cartridge! If you are looking for rapid kills and not worried about a little meat damage, then those SSTs at high speed turn the .243 into a serious deer machine!
Because some 270s can actually whack you pretty hard with 140s to 160s. It depends on the rifle. But a 25-06 is never going to shoot more than a 120gr, and usually at more sedate speeds than the factory loads are actually advertising. A 270 is almost always loaded pretty hot with any bullet weight.
God choice,,, thought through well ..., same choice i would have made and I already have a 25-06....
As I said earlier I own both the .243 and the 25-06 so when my 8 year old grandson wanted to deer hunt with me last fall I set him up with the .243, shooting federal fusion 95 grain bullets. I chose the .243 because he proved he could consistently hit an eight inch steel plate at 100 yards and wasn't bothered by its recoil. (My 25-06 is in a TC encore and has more noticeable recoil)
With the manageable recoil he was able to make a one shot kill when the deer walked by the stand making both of us proud! I started my sons out with a .243 and now my grandchildren because it, in my opinion, perfectly fits the gap for a varmit to deer cartridge.
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So for you 243 guys, I am trying to decide between 87 grain and 95 grain. I plan to shoot the Berger's. I think if I am going to shoot the 95 it will be the classic hunter. It appears the VLD 95 works into the extreme high end of marginal stability on the charts when I get down to 0 degrees at my lowest elevation, even though I pretty much never hunt at that elevation. I am figuring about 3000fps on a 95 grain.
I am finding that between and 87 grain berger and a 95 VLD, there is enough difference to maybe consider it. But between the 87 and the 95 classic hunter, not quite as much really.
I am thinking about trying out the VLD just for kicks anyways.
Anybody have any input on this????
I am finding that between and 87 grain berger and a 95 VLD, there is enough difference to maybe consider it. But between the 87 and the 95 classic hunter, not quite as much really.
I am thinking about trying out the VLD just for kicks anyways.
Anybody have any input on this????
