22x47 Lapua

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by jbone405, Jan 13, 2014.

  1. jbone405

    jbone405 Well-Known Member

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    How much would it cost to start loading for this chamber? Brass and dies to get started seems to be pretty expensive.

    For dies, would I be able to use non custom dies? I like lee dies, so would I be able to use a 22-250AI neck collet die, 22 BR seater, and since I like it, some sort of factory crimp?

    For brass, would I be able to form some out of, say, 22-250 brass? I know lapua brass is great and seems to last forever in this chambering, but at $1.09 a pop it is still pretty expensive.

    Would I even be able to neck down brass without a bushing die or custom .22x47 die?

    I mostly target shoot and prairie dog hunt, and I feel like being able to shoot heavy bullets a higher velocity would be pretty effective. The cheapest route I can figure is just rechamber my factory .223 with 1/2 moa accuracy to something with a little more capacity and really liked the 22x47 performance. A 22-250 with a 1-9 twist would work, but it is not a good on barrel life, cases, and it supposedly will heat up much faster according to many accounts on LRH.


    I have been looking at rechambering my marlin x7vh (basically a savage action) in .223 with a 1/9 twist 26" varmint contour. It shoots about a 1/2 moa as of now with 53 grain vmaxes, H4895 and cci 41 primers. It's really the only powder/primer combo I have tried so I figure I could get more accuracy out of it if I tried harder.

    Thanks for any info you can help me out with!
     
  2. benchracer

    benchracer Well-Known Member

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    The 22-250AI is a better choice according to this:

    22-250 Cartridge Guide within AccurateShooter.com

    Re-chambering a .223 will not work because of the difference in case head size between the two cartridges.

    I don't see how there would be much difference in barrel heat or barrel life between a 22x47 Lapua and a 22-250 AI since there is very little difference in case capacity. Hodgdon shows 3500 fps from a 70 grain bullet with Superformance in the standard 22-250. That is +550 fps over a comparable factory load in .223. There is no way you are going to get that level of performance without paying a price in heat and barrel life.

    I can tell you from shooting my standard 22-250 that if heat and barrel life are your concerns, you should stick with a .223. A fast twist barrel with good bullets will take you a lot further than you might think. A .223 is also quite a bit less expensive to shoot. The gap gets bigger when you consider barrel life.

    I personally prefer 22-250, but I am willing to accept the trade-offs.
     

  3. jbone405

    jbone405 Well-Known Member

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    I realize that and the 22-250 AI does a lot of things that I like, however, it has nothing to do with my questions. I know I can get dies brass and everything I need IF I were to decide to go this way.





    If you mean that the boltface would be too small, the marlins have a changeable bolthead, so no problem. But the 22-250 has almost the same size bolthead as the 47, so why would suggest another thing that would not work.





    Case design. I am no expert, but I have read literally every post and article on this chambering. From my understanding, the case design, like that of the 22BR, is more efficient and keeps more of the powder burn inside the case, thereby extending barrel life. Small rifle primers also help to increase case life.

    As far as seating a 75-90gn bullet out at the neck shoulder junction, I don't know how long that would make a 22-250. I mostly single feed so it really doesn't matter, but I like the 22x47 overall length better.

    I don't really care about speed as much as efficiency of case design and if it were possible I would probably just do a 22BR, but I cannot set the barrel back as I think I would run out of barrel threads.
     
  4. benchracer

    benchracer Well-Known Member

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    It most certainly does have something to do with your question. You mentioned cost. The AI will get you to the same destination much less expensively. You mentioned cost of Lapua brass. Ditto there. You are proposing taking the long way around (and more expensive) to get 22-250ish ballistics with a cartridge that tends to behave less consistently (according to one of the shooters referenced in the link I posted. Did you bother to actually read it?). I thought that might be of concern to you. Disregard all of that if you wish, but it is all still relevant to your question.



    I didn't realize the Marlin had the changeable bolt head, so that changes things a bit. I mentioned the bolt face issue, not to influence your cartridge choice, but your path to getting there. Since you have the changeable bolt head, the path to getting the cartridge you want is a non-issue.




    I don't know how long the factory barrel shank is on your rifle. If there is enough shank, it may be possible to cut more threads and set the barrel back enough for 22BR to work. If you are planning on having a smith do the re-chambering work, it may be worth discussing.

    While the right case design may, perhaps, help to offset the negative effects of increasing case capacity, your barrel will still heat much more quickly and have a much shorter life than it would with your .223. Of course, you could always download the larger case, but if efficiency is the point of the exercise, downloading would seem to defeat the purpose.
     
  5. jbone405

    jbone405 Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate the input. I have realize that the 22-250AI would be cheaper, I am just curious about the Lapua right now. The questions I asked pertain to making it a little less expensive.

    I have not read the article yet as I have not had time. I can't at work since it is blocked. I will soon though. Thanks for the link.

    I don't think there probably is enough barrel shank to cut it down for a 22br, but I am not going to have a smith do it. I have a good friend who has been a machinist for 30 some years who wants to start chambering barrels and I told him I would let him fool with my factory barrel.

    Definitely agree a .223 is going to better in terms of heat and barrel life, but between the 22-250 and 22x47, the lapua seems better.

    Thanks for the replies, I don't want to come off ungrateful, just really want to know about loading for a 22x47L. I will check out that link when I have a chance.
     
  6. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    What makes the 6.5x47 and rounds based of it perform is the Lapua brass, it's made to run at the top end of pressure, any other brass would just not get you there, the lapua brass is cheap because you get many more firings from it.There are places to be cheap and place to not, pick your battles wisely!
     
  7. benchracer

    benchracer Well-Known Member

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    Therein lies the rub. Lapua 22-250 brass is about $10 cheaper per hundred than x47 brass. When the 6.5x47 first appeared on the shooting scene, Lapua didn't make 22-250 brass, so there was more incentive to use the x47 case. That dynamic has changed quite a bit. Now it is not uncommon for 22x47 shooters to use Lapua 22-250 brass to form cases.
     
  8. jbone405

    jbone405 Well-Known Member

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    While I realize that Lapua brass is far superior, buying 300 Lapua anything doesn't sound fun to me. In the long run, yes, it is going to be better and I will use it in my more accurate long range loads.

    But what does it take to make once fired 22-250 brass into 22x47 brass? Just to get a good amount of brass for prairie dog hunts lapua brass isn't really economical.
     
  9. Edd

    Edd Well-Known Member

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    You will have to push the shoulder back about .115", trim the case, and fire form it.
     
  10. jbone405

    jbone405 Well-Known Member

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    Would I need to order a die specifically for the 22x47 or would a guy be able to push the shoulder back with, say, a .22-250 die with .115 taken off?

    I definitely need learn more about sizing brass to custom chamberings before considering this.
     
  11. Edd

    Edd Well-Known Member

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    You will need custom loading dies for the 22x47 Lapua and you will need custom case forming dies to push the shoulder back on the 22-250 cases.
     
  12. Garycrow

    Garycrow Well-Known Member

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    Nothing you're talking about doing with a wildcat is inexpensive. If you're looking to save money by using this round then you're not going to do it. Also you seem to be hung up on the "efficiency" of the 6.5x47 Lapua case. It is efficient, when it's shooting 6.5mm bullets. Neck it down to .22 and it's pretty overbore so efficiency goes out the window. You're not going to get any better barrel life out of it than a regular 22-250 AI and certainly not more than a regular 22-250, whoever told you otherwise is full of it. You're going the long way around the mountain to end up with what is essentially a 22-250 AI with slightly less case capacity. You're going to have to get custom dies and a custom reamer none of which is inexpensive then you say you don't want to pay for Lapua brass because it's too expensive. It seems like you're wanting to get out cheap (no problem with that), but what you're wanting to do is going to end up costing you a lot more in the long run than going with the regular 22-250 AI which you can buy off the shelf dies for and for which most decent gunsmiths have a reamer. Even cheaper would be a regular 22-250.
     
  13. jbone405

    jbone405 Well-Known Member

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    Do you think it would be possible to use .22 br dies with a spacer? The only difference in the chamber that I am aware of is the .38 difference in length, though I am not quite sure about the shoulder angle.

    .22 BR are far more available and my next barrel would likely be chambered in that.

    Thanks for the help.
     
  14. jbone405

    jbone405 Well-Known Member

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    Well the several posts on here from people that actually shoot the 22x47 would say much different.

    That actually is another thought of mine. In the article benchracer posted them mention doing exactly that. Running a 22-250 ai die in something like .500 short and then shortening a 22-250ai die that much.

    In reality though this post isn't about which chambering, rather, about dies for 22x47 lapua.

    When I talk about efficiency, being able to reach the same velocity with less powder is what I am thinking of.