22-250 to 600 yards max, does anyone do it?

[Michael Courtney]

I read the paper you posted regarding bullet stability. Interesting stuff. Thank you for posting the stability formulas in spreadsheet form. This will be an excellent tool! GREAT information!

I had previously been using the stability calculator on the JBM site and I found it to work very well. I like having my own calculator, though. Now I can measure the bullets I have at home and create my own database.

I really think your spreadsheet should be made into a sticky for the Reloading forum. An accompanying sticky containing the relevant dimensions for various bullets would also answer a lot of questions for a lot of people.

Thanks. The JBM site has the total lengths for a lot of bullets, but I don't know of any repository for the plastic tip lengths.

We buy our bullets like everyone else, so we're not really interested in buying and measuring lots of plastic tip lengths. We're reluctant to pass along info we have not verified. It is simple enough to measure the bullets you own, and to at least get the total length from the manufacturer or JBM for bullets you are considering. The calculator at the JBM site is an implementation of the original Miller formula and the adjusted formula for plastic tipped bullets. It should give the same Sg as the spreadsheet, except the spreadsheet also includes the case of open tipped match bullets.

The total length of the 53 grain VMAX is 0.829" and the metal length (or full density length) is 0.688". Many plastic tips are in the neighborhood of 0.15" long, so in the absence of a precise measurement, that would be a reasonable estimate.

 

[gunners]

That's a fantastic tool very simple to use. Sg 1.043 @3850fps is what my measurements worked out using that calculator, without adjusting enviromental factors. Adjusting those factors gives Sg 1.08 so it's borderline. It's interesting also how the Sg apparently effects the bc. So even if they did stabilize I may not get the .290 b.c. anyway
After reading all that stuff I have to go lay down

 

[benchracer]

Thanks. The JBM site has the total lengths for a lot of bullets, but I don't know of any repository for the plastic tip lengths.

We buy our bullets like everyone else, so we're not really interested in buying and measuring lots of plastic tip lengths. We're reluctant to pass along info we have not verified. It is simple enough to measure the bullets you own, and to at least get the total length from the manufacturer or JBM for bullets you are considering. The calculator at the JBM site is an implementation of the original Miller formula and the adjusted formula for plastic tipped bullets. It should give the same Sg as the spreadsheet, except the spreadsheet also includes the case of open tipped match bullets.

The total length of the 53 grain VMAX is 0.829" and the metal length (or full density length) is 0.688". Many plastic tips are in the neighborhood of 0.15" long, so in the absence of a precise measurement, that would be a reasonable estimate.

I am aware of the information that JBM has posted for bullet lengths and plastic tip lengths and have used it myself. I was thinking of having posted information regarding bullet dimensions that is supplied by forum members who have the bullets themselves. That would allow us to maintain up to date information on LRH more easily and thoroughly.

Aside from that, I have a question: What is your methodology for measuring the amount of open space in an OTM type bullet?

 

[Michael Courtney]

That's a fantastic tool very simple to use. Sg 1.043 @3850fps is what my measurements worked out using that calculator, without adjusting enviromental factors. Adjusting those factors gives Sg 1.08 so it's borderline. It's interesting also how the Sg apparently effects the bc. So even if they did stabilize I may not get the .290 b.c. anyway
After reading all that stuff I have to go lay down

Right. Sg below 1.25 suggest a significant reduction in BC. Better to shoot a bullet with Sg >= 1.3.

 

[Michael Courtney]

I am aware of the information that JBM has posted for bullet lengths and plastic tip lengths and have used it myself. I was thinking of having posted information regarding bullet dimensions that is supplied by forum members who have the bullets themselves. That would allow us to maintain up to date information on LRH more easily and thoroughly.

Aside from that, I have a question: What is your methodology for measuring the amount of open space in an OTM type bullet?

For the ones big enough, we used a mechanical pencil to insert a pencil lead into the tip as far as it would go and then measure with a caliper. Some narrower hollow points, we needed to use a thinner drill bit, insert as far as possible, mark with a sharpie, and then measure the depth of the inserted bit with a caliper.

To me, it makes more sense for members to measure the lengths and send for posting at the JBM site, as that site is already well ahead of a new effort here:

http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/lengths/lengths.shtml

 

[benchracer]

To me, it makes more sense for members to measure the lengths and send for posting at the JBM site, as that site is already well ahead of a new effort here:

JBM - Bullet Length List

I was starting to think that the database on JBM wasn't being updated anymore. It seems to be behind the times where quite a few bullets are concerned. I will take some measurements and submit them.

 

[COBrad]

While the .290 BC of the 53 gr V-Max is decent, I would still expect it to get blown around at 500 yards and beyond, in a moderate wind. I am looking for BC's in the mid 4's, like the 75 and 80 gr A-Max's... if they start making them again. May end up with Berger or JLK bullets.
The other alternative is go to a 6mm. Easier to get high BC's, and the Berger Hunting VLD's have been killer varmint bullets for me in 7mm and .270. I've been eyeballing the 6XC for a good while.

 

[gunners]

I'm thinking of going to the range on Friday to test them out, along with a few other rifles I'm working on. I get from this discussion that in good conditions it is doable but if conditions are less than optimal it would be a case of not being able to ethically make the shot at that distance. So am thinking I will be re-barrelling and/or stepping up to a 6 mm. I like the 6-6.5x47 lapua, wish they just call it the 6x47 lapua

 

[benchracer]

While the .290 BC of the 53 gr V-Max is decent, I would still expect it to get blown around at 500 yards and beyond, in a moderate wind. I am looking for BC's in the mid 4's, like the 75 and 80 gr A-Max's... if they start making them again. May end up with Berger or JLK bullets.
The other alternative is go to a 6mm. Easier to get high BC's, and the Berger Hunting VLD's have been killer varmint bullets for me in 7mm and .270. I've been eyeballing the 6XC for a good while.

If you have the twist for it, there is no question that the 75 and 80 AMAX's would be better performers at long range. To beat the 53 grain VMAX, you HAVE to step up to bullets in that class. If I planned to shoot those bullets, though, I would seriously consider stepping up to the 22-250 AI.

I would also agree, though, that once you set up a 22-250 with a fast twist and heavy bullets, you are starting to tread in territory where a fast 6mm might be a better choice. That is what has me sitting the fence when I think about going with a fast twist 22-250.

 

[CB11WYO]

...So am thinking I will be re-barrelling and/or stepping up to a 6 mm. I like the 6-6.5x47 lapua...

I can second that thought... I really like mine, 6x47 Lapua that is

 

[gunners]

WOOHOO!!!! they work, and work quite well even though conditions were very blustery and targets were moving a bit. The low down is no tumbling at 100 meters(109 yards)Velocities down on what I expected but the top load I had didn't read because the chronograph got blown over towards the end and bent the sky screen crooked which I didn't realize. Best 5 shot group of the day was 0.597 of an inch @3697 fps average velocity that was the second top load. The top load which was 0.5 grain higher was going great till I stuffed up the 4th shot the 5th one went back into the hole, 4 shots measured 0.4 of an inch, just wish I had the velocity for it. All six 5 shot groups went under an inch, which considering the conditions was excellent. The guy next to me his chronograph got blown over an it smashed to pieces poor bugger. So next time out I'll load up some hotter loads and try them out to 300 meters (327 yards) and see if they are still stable and accurate.gun)

 

[benchracer]

WOOHOO!!!! they work, and work quite well even though conditions were very blustery and targets were moving a bit. The low down is no tumbling at 100 meters(109 yards)Velocities down on what I expected but the top load I had didn't read because the chronograph got blown over towards the end and bent the sky screen crooked which I didn't realize. Best 5 shot group of the day was 0.597 of an inch @3697 fps average velocity that was the second top load. The top load which was 0.5 grain higher was going great till I stuffed up the 4th shot the 5th one went back into the hole, 4 shots measured 0.4 of an inch, just wish I had the velocity for it. All six 5 shot groups went under an inch, which considering the conditions was excellent. The guy next to me his chronograph got blown over an it smashed to pieces poor bugger. So next time out I'll load up some hotter loads and try them out to 300 meters (327 yards) and see if they are still stable and accurate.gun)

Good deal! I look forward to reading about your results!

 

[CB11WYO]

Awesome, glad they are working out for you! Sweet shootin' gun)

 

[COBrad]

Good shooting. I like groups like that.