22-243AI vs 22 CHeetah vs 22 something else

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by wkinderknecht, Oct 30, 2007.

  1. wkinderknecht

    wkinderknecht Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    131
    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2004
    Please forgive my lack of knowledge. I'm trying to figure out a future project, and want a screaming 22 for 75 or 80gr Amax's to do some vermin control. I understand that the CHeetah is based on the 308 benchrest case, so it uses a small primer. There is a local guy that had a Cheetah who used 243 brass for his to use the large primer pocket. They both have a 40 degree sholulder. This left me confused so:
    1. Is there any real difference other than the original parent case?
    2. Is one more popular than the other?
    3. Any better 22 caliber for specified use that uses equally available parts, and is easy to form. If it makes any difference, I have ZERO interest in a tight neck with the need to turn the cases.

    Your help is greatly appreciated. wk
     
  2. Cheyenne19

    Cheyenne19 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    85
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2007
    I'm working on a 22-243AI. Which is the same as a MKI cheetah, except for the small rifle primer. I'm going to use 243 necked down and 80smk
     

  3. wkinderknecht

    wkinderknecht Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    131
    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2004
    Thanks Cheyenne19,
    Does anyone have a suggestion outside of the 308 based case down to 22, or is this is good as it gets?
     
  4. LewisH

    LewisH Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    458
    Joined:
    May 13, 2007
    22/6mm Remington, 22/284...they've all been done, and then some...all pretty much the same, and all barrel burners par excellence.

    The 220 Swift Improved is a little milder, but is about the same as the Cheeta or 22-243AI.
     
  5. Gary Morgan

    Gary Morgan Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    88
    Joined:
    May 27, 2007
    224TTH AKA 224-6mm AKA 22/6mm

    All these names apply to the 6mm Remington case necked down to 224 caliber. I have one in 10-twist that works very well with the 70 grain Berger VLD. It shoots one and two-tenths groups at 100 at 3,644 FPS. This bullet is not as explosive on P-dogs as are the polymer-tipped bullets, but it works well if you are only interested in killing them. I have another barrel in 8.5 twist that I am having chambered in the same cartridge. The 22/6mm only requires that you run a 6mm Remington case through the 22/6mm die to neck it down and then trim to length. Hornady makes a great die set for this cartridge.

    I won't mislead you, I haven't had the barrel long enough to give any estimate on its life, but so far the throat looks like it will be about as long lived as a 6x284, which will put it in the 1,000 to 1,400 shot range.

    Mr. Lonnie Hummel of Hornady is a wealth of knowledge on this cartridge. He uses it in 1,000 yard competition. He says that he gets great life out of his barrels by reduced the powder charge to get 3,400 FPS with the 75 or 80 grain A-Max and cleaning very regularly. He has some barrels that he has gotten 2500+ rounds out of. He says it shoots flat enough that you don't need a scope mount with any additional MOA built in to shoot at 1,000 yards.

    I hope this info is helpful.
     
  6. Varmint Hunter

    Varmint Hunter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,522
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2001
    I have owned a 22-243AI for quite awhile. It will produce amazing accuracy with the 75gr A-Max. Best group was .625" @ 600 yards laser ranged & witnessed. The rifle was used exclusively to kill PA groundhogs out to 1,000 yards. Many, many extended range kills were made with instant lethality.

    http://www.hunt101.com/img/347921.jpg

    Naturally, throat life will be limited with any cartridge with this much case capacity and a .224 bore, particularely if you allow the barrel to get hot or are not maticulous about barrel cleaning.

    At about 1,000 rounds I decided to set the barrel back and rechamber. Only this time I rechambered in 22-243 (plain). It is a straight forward operation to neck down .243 Lapua cases and just start shooting - no fireforming which needlessly wastes valuable barrel life. Saves time, saves money and quality match grade dies are MUCH cheaper. The AI version was a learning experience and fun to play with but my advise would be to avoid all the various configurations which require fireforming or special order dies & equiptment.

    I might add that a .224 bore cartridge with .243 case capacity (or more) is all but usless with any bullets except the real heavy weights. For lighter bullets you would be much better served with a standard 22-250 or 220 Swift. IMO

    My gunsmith was so pleased with the results achieved with this new reamer that he built a rifle for himself. However, he used his rifle for deer hunting. He told me that it was one of his rifles that he enjoyed shooting the most and that it was very effective at harvesting whitetails.
     
  7. Cheyenne19

    Cheyenne19 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    85
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2007
    My 220SwiftAI won't run with the Cheetah. It's close but 100-200 fps slower.
     
  8. Wild_Bill

    Wild_Bill Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    744
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2005
    22-6mm rem

    hi if you look at the 22-6mm Rem why not try the 5.6X57 RWS makes the cartridge and it can be made by necking 6mm Rem cases to 22 cal. It isbrare to make anything new. The Cheeta has a similar capacity. The bigest issue you will havevis not blowing up the A Maz projectiles.

    Don't go any faster than a 9 twist or ypu will blow more projectiles than will make itbto the target intact.

    Have fun with your rifle, personaly I would go for a 6mm like a 6mm284 because high performance 22's are a pain to keep kleen and the barrel life is 1000 rounds max I know of a guy whose 22 cheeta only made 800 rounds using 80gr sieras.

    Cheers Bill
    Australia
     
  9. Varmint Hunter

    Varmint Hunter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,522
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2001
    "The biggest issue you will have is not blowing up the A Max projectiles.
    Don't go any faster than a 9 twist or you will blow more projectiles than will make it to the target intact."

    **This has not been my experience but I have heard this from others who may have had rough bores or throats. I shot nearly 1,000 75gr A-Max bullets through my Hart 8" twist without dusting a single bullet. I moly coat all of my varmint bullets so this may have helped. You will need an 8" twist to shoot any of the 80gr-90gr bullets with the higher BC's.
     
  10. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

    Messages:
    1,459
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2001
    Options

    consider the 22Dasher or 22/250AI. yes, these are slower but losing 100fps and gaining a substantial amount more barrel life may be a fair trade off. The difference in splat factor is only 100yds.

    I presently shoot a fast twist 223 pushing 75gr at 3000fps. No issue with PD sized rocks at 1000m if I can dope the air. Going 400fps faster will reduce drift a bit but you will still need to hold off. Drop will only reduce by a few mins at that distance. Way out there, no splat.

    A 223AI will go 3000/3100fps, the 22Dasher 3100+, the 22/250AI 3200+ with 75gr Amax. Bullets will handle these speeds with ease and fouling is not as critical to remove. Cost per shot is also reduced.

    My pac nor wears a 7 twist but I will not shoot heavier then 80gr Amax so an 8 twist would have been fine.

    Having accurate fire 5000 to 7000rds in my 223 is a nice bonus. Better then getting a new barrel 700rds after working up a load.

    Jerry
     
  11. Varmint Hunter

    Varmint Hunter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,522
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2001
    "consider the 22Dasher or 22/250AI. yes, these are slower but losing 100fps and gaining a substantial amount more barrel life may be a fair trade off."

    Slower by a 100 ft/sec would be a good trade off but it isn't what I have experienced. My favorite load in the 22-243AI was 48.2gr RE22 under the 75gr A-Max (moly) in a Lapua case. My average velocity was 3,668 ft/sec and case life was reasonably good. Accuracy was excellent. That would be 570 ft/sec faster than the velocity you posted for the 22Dasher using then same bullet.

    All rifles are different but this has been my findings with the 22-243AI. The 22-243AI, and similar varients, have been used to compete at the 1,000yd BR matches @ Williamsport. They are said to have faired pretty well in their day. I have found the 22-243AI to be almost as much fun to shoot as my no frills .221FB.
     
  12. wkinderknecht

    wkinderknecht Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    131
    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2004
    5.6x57 RWS

    Wild Bill
    I looked into the 5.6x57 cartridge, and it looks rather interesting. The problem is that I can't find brass, although you mentioned I could use 6mm brass. The other problem is that RCBS dies cost twice as much, and i can't find much for load data or a chamber reamer. If you know a source for either, please let me know.
    Thank you,
    William
     
  13. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

    Messages:
    1,459
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2001
    But...

    VH, how much barrel life do you expect from your 22/243AI?

    And, how many shots before the bore starts tearing those Amax apart?

    I am all for speed and have had my fair share of fun.

    Nowadays, I see maxing bullet efficiency as a better way to hit LR targets. I do shoot larger volume per outing so barrel life has to be considered. I also hate waiting for barrels to cool.

    Yes, faster means more splat. NO argument from me on that. Problem is that extra speed also comes at a cost.

    There is no free lunch.

    Jerry
     
  14. wkinderknecht

    wkinderknecht Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    131
    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2004
    Gary,
    What chamber reamer are you using? I took your suggestion, and spoke to Lonnie. He was most helpful, and I think I have my next wildcat figured out. Thank you for the suggestion, and thanks in advance about the reamer.
    wk