22-204 vs 222 mag vs 223 A.I.

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by CHARLIEDUECE65, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. CHARLIEDUECE65

    CHARLIEDUECE65 Well-Known Member

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    I recently purchased a .224 caliber barrel from Krieger. The barrel was in their in stock inventory, a 9 twist # 3 contour. I'm wondering which chambering would offer the most performance and what the optimum barrel length would be. The rifle is a short action remington 700 with the small bolt face for the 223 cartridge. I'm really interested in the 22-204 and finishing it at 24". Any experience, thoughts, or opinions. I've thought of changing the bolt face also, but want to keep this build cheap. Thanks.
     
  2. strombeckj

    strombeckj Well-Known Member

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    I think I would build a 22x47 so I could push the 70-80gr's with less heat for such a little barrel vs. let's say a 22-250 or 22-250AI. (which would be my 2nd choice) Bolt face can be opened up for very little $$

    At least a 24" Would consider a break so I could see the hits. A 22-204 is pretty much the same as a 222mag which is about the same as a .223AI (give or take nothing between the 3) So I would base it on cost of dies & brass. .223 Lake City is great brass and is dirt cheap and with a .223AI you could buy off the shelf ammo in a pinch.

    If it's a repeater you may have problems with a .223AI, 22-250AI or 22x47 feeding but in most case it's a small problem to have.

    ALSO.... I wouldn't forget to include a 22PPC or a 22BR all of which are very nice rounds and shoot the heavy 22 cals.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2011

  3. CHARLIEDUECE65

    CHARLIEDUECE65 Well-Known Member

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    I've thought of those rounds...was more interested in the 22br. However, I've decided to stay with the I believe .391 bolt face and use a 223 based case. I want to keep this rifle economical. I would like to know more about the 22-204 Ruger. I saw pics of all the cases on another site and it's the biggest (case capacity wise) of them all. It's about the same as the 222 ai with less neck.
     
  4. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't buld a 222mag (what a .224/.204 really is). What I would build would be a .223AI, but with the .222mag neck design. The longer neck will handle longer bullets better. There is very little difference between a .222mag and a generic .223, but with the longer neck you can keep the bullet outside of the body of the case. Tobe exact, there's little to be gained with the Ackley chamber over the standard. I'd find a nice .222mag reamer and ream it so a .223 will headspace correctly on a go gauge. But if you could get a reamer ground to the Ackley spec and .222mag deminsions, you might see a hundred fifty feet per second increase in velocity. You could also build a .224BG by ordering in a new bolt & reamer from Dave Kiff. The case at the shoulder is 1.352 with minimum taper. The neck is about .35 with a 30 degree shoulder. This ought to push an 80 grain bullet out to 2850fps if not 2950fps
    gary
     
  5. CHARLIEDUECE65

    CHARLIEDUECE65 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, with a 9 twist barrel I was planning on staying with 50-65 gr bullets. So with the bullets being pretty short I wouldn't imagine the longer necks doing me much good.
     
  6. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    first of all the 50 grain bullet will be way over stabalized in a 1:9 barrel, thus compounding any error manufactuered in the bullet. I wouldn't go much lower than a 60 grain bullet, or a very long 55 grain bullet. The longer necks have been proven thruout the years to produce tighter groups, but just as importantly also proven to have a much better barrel life. (keeps the vortex of the flame out of the throat). If it were me, I'd build a nice 22BR or a .224BG and be miles ahead of the game
    gary
     
  7. alf

    alf Well-Known Member

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    For the naysayers and uninformed........

    The 22-204 holds about one grain more than the 223 Ackley,

    Some cases for comparison.....

    221 Fireball --- 222 Rem --- 223 REM --- 223 Ackley --- 222 Rem mag --- 22-204

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    just a quick glance in the Hornaday maual shows the 45 grain .204 maxed out at 3600fps with a .245B/C. Yet the .223 Remington with a 50 grain bullet (.242B/C) will be about 100 fps slower. I should think an ackley chamber in .223 will give you everything the 22-.204 will do. But a 22BR will push the 53 grain bullet almost a hundred FPS faster (if not more). A .224BG should push a 70 grain bullet at about 3750fps without going into over pressure
    gary
     
  9. alf

    alf Well-Known Member

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    Again,

    The OP is staying with the .378 boltface, so anything with a .473 is not in the picture or discussion.

    And, to repeat,

    The 22-204 has about a grain more capacity, so the 223 Ackley cannot compete, when all thing are compared equally. It may be a small advantage, but an advantage none the less.

    And,

    I have built two 22-204's and a third on the way, and have had an Ackley in the past, so I don't have to use a book to compare the differences...........
     
  10. TOM H

    TOM H Well-Known Member

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    Long before the 204 the Br guys played with the 222mag case. They moved the body forward changed the shoulder angle. You can check the cases out on this site they were called
    22-40/22-45 Competition Cartridges and I think at one time they even did 35 degree shoulders.

    If you take those old wildcat cases formed from the 222mag and neck them down to 20 cal you be pretty close to the 204 case. I shoot customs in 221FB,222,222AI,223 and 223AI and I have a factory Rem 722 in 222mag also a 22BR.

    Alot of good cases out there if it was me I'd do the 22-204 those 22-40 etc won alot of matches was a better case than the 222mag. One of my early Br rifles was chamber for the 6x47x45.

    You can get on BR site join the forum and there some older shooters that post there may have some loading data for those 22-40 etc and you could get hold of Walt Berger he still may some.
     
  11. CHARLIEDUECE65

    CHARLIEDUECE65 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info guys. One day I will do a 22 br or improved variant with a fast twist for the heavy bullets, but now I am going to stick with the 223 ai or the 22-204. I'm leaning again towards the 22-204. This rifle is going to be a carry rifle with a light contour barrel not a heavy varmit gun, and I don't shoot an enormous amount of rounds per year. I all ready have an HS ADL stock, and a 4.4x14x40 leupold scope with target turrets on it. What bullet weight is optimum for the 9 twist at 223ai/22-204 velocities? Alf that is the picture I saw of the rounds on the other site. What is the optimum barrel length for these rounds. The number 3 contour can be finished at 26" length but krieger recommended to finish at 24". The stock barrel is 24" and that seems ok to me wondering if going a few inches shorter would hurt.
     
  12. alf

    alf Well-Known Member

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    I've never ran a 9 twist, so I really can't comment from experience. From what I've gathered, it it's a true 9, there's a good chance it will work with the 75 A-Maxes at AI/22-204 velocities. It's a bullet's length, not weight, that determines twist needed.

    My first barrel was an 8 twist Krieger four groove cut to 22", and the accuracy was a 3050 with the 75's. Ran them up to 3150, but was tough on pockets, and pressure seemed to spike quickly. It was a powder learning curve, not a dig on Krieger.

    Next barrel was a 26" Rock 5R 8 twist, and the accuracy is at 3150, and have run them to almost 3250 with no pressure signs. Since this one's for SD prairie dogs, I'm happy at that speed. Still wanna test in hotter temps first, though before I load up a butt load.

    I've got another 8 twist Rock coming in a #2 Douglas contour, for a lighter carry/calling gun in 22-204 I'm putting together, and I'm having it cut at 22".

    As far as optimum length, it's always a compromise. You have to juggle velocity, barrel length, contour, over all weight, balance, and portability with all your parts as a total package deal.
     
  13. backwoods83

    backwoods83 Well-Known Member

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    between the 3 you listed they will all basically duplicate each other, 223ai will be a tad behind because of the short neck, then the 22-204 also holds back potential because of the short neck, it may hold a tid bit more powder, but with the 222 mag the neck is long enough to keep the bullet out of the powder space that you may want to take advantage of with a 9 twist and heavier bullets.
     
  14. alf

    alf Well-Known Member

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    The short neck of the Ackley or the 22-204 is not a detriment in powder capacity or attainable velocity when using suitable powder for either utilizing the heavier bullets.

    The 222 Rem Mag in factory form still sucks hind tit to either.........