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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Reloading
21st Century Carbide Mandrel Question
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<blockquote data-quote="QuietTexan" data-source="post: 2516383" data-attributes="member: 116181"><p>"Expander" or "sizing" mandrels generally mean the mandrel expands the case neck to a particular size, usually for use as part of a neck turning kit - they expand case necks to a certain size to ride correctly on the arbor as the case neck is cut. The majority of manufacturers that make mandrels fall into this "for neck turning" category, at least until recently when we've seen a growth in offerings for pre-bullet seating neck expansion.</p><p></p><p>"Turning" mandrels are a misnomer. They're really arbors in that the work piece (the brass case) is rotating on them, but you still see them listed most places as "turning mandrels". These aren't for sizing - the expanding mandrels are sized to get the brass to fit correctly on the arbor to prevent excessive slop in the cutting process.</p><p></p><p>21st Century, Porter Tool, K+M, SAC, and a few other companies have branched out into offering very precisely sized sets of mandrels in 0.0005" increments that can be used to very precisely set inner neck diameter before bullet seating. This has been much less common until recently, it's taken off some in the last few years. Used to be most guys used the -0.002" "turning mandrel" or -0.001" expanding mandrel to make the final pre-bullet seating process an upsizing movement in the neck, but we now have significantly more options than repurposed neck turning tools for this.</p><p></p><p></p><p>You need a die body that works with the mandrels you have. Most mandrels with non-threaded heads fit into a Sinclair sized die like this one:</p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/case-preparation/neck-turning/turning-expander-mandrels/generation-ii-expander-dies-prod38807.aspx[/URL]</p><p></p><p></p><p>LE Wilson makes "new brass" mandrels that are sized to where they should result in a neck that is 0.0015" smaller than caliber when run through new, unfired brass. This tool is designed to iron out the dings that case necks inevitably get if they aren't shipped in ammo boxes. LE Wilson mandrels are not compatible with Sinclair pattern dies - they tread into a stem which is then treaded into the die body. To use a Wilson mandrel, you need a Wilson die, and vice versa. If you don't have Wilson mandrels, their die won't work for you.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Using mandrels won't automatically reduce runout, but generally using a mandrel to size the ID of the case neck you won't add as much as you otherwise might, especially if you're currently using a button in your sizing die and pulling up through the case neck.</p><p></p><p></p><p>IMO there's no need for you to use mandrels, at the range you said you'll most likely never see a difference unless you're really deep into Benchrest/ F-Class type shooting and are consistently under half-MOA groups already. Not a rabbit hole worth going down unless you're trying to chase smaller groups than you can currently get, and you've already taken care of some other things along the way.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="QuietTexan, post: 2516383, member: 116181"] "Expander" or "sizing" mandrels generally mean the mandrel expands the case neck to a particular size, usually for use as part of a neck turning kit - they expand case necks to a certain size to ride correctly on the arbor as the case neck is cut. The majority of manufacturers that make mandrels fall into this "for neck turning" category, at least until recently when we've seen a growth in offerings for pre-bullet seating neck expansion. "Turning" mandrels are a misnomer. They're really arbors in that the work piece (the brass case) is rotating on them, but you still see them listed most places as "turning mandrels". These aren't for sizing - the expanding mandrels are sized to get the brass to fit correctly on the arbor to prevent excessive slop in the cutting process. 21st Century, Porter Tool, K+M, SAC, and a few other companies have branched out into offering very precisely sized sets of mandrels in 0.0005" increments that can be used to very precisely set inner neck diameter before bullet seating. This has been much less common until recently, it's taken off some in the last few years. Used to be most guys used the -0.002" "turning mandrel" or -0.001" expanding mandrel to make the final pre-bullet seating process an upsizing movement in the neck, but we now have significantly more options than repurposed neck turning tools for this. You need a die body that works with the mandrels you have. Most mandrels with non-threaded heads fit into a Sinclair sized die like this one: [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/case-preparation/neck-turning/turning-expander-mandrels/generation-ii-expander-dies-prod38807.aspx[/URL] LE Wilson makes "new brass" mandrels that are sized to where they should result in a neck that is 0.0015" smaller than caliber when run through new, unfired brass. This tool is designed to iron out the dings that case necks inevitably get if they aren't shipped in ammo boxes. LE Wilson mandrels are not compatible with Sinclair pattern dies - they tread into a stem which is then treaded into the die body. To use a Wilson mandrel, you need a Wilson die, and vice versa. If you don't have Wilson mandrels, their die won't work for you. Using mandrels won't automatically reduce runout, but generally using a mandrel to size the ID of the case neck you won't add as much as you otherwise might, especially if you're currently using a button in your sizing die and pulling up through the case neck. IMO there's no need for you to use mandrels, at the range you said you'll most likely never see a difference unless you're really deep into Benchrest/ F-Class type shooting and are consistently under half-MOA groups already. Not a rabbit hole worth going down unless you're trying to chase smaller groups than you can currently get, and you've already taken care of some other things along the way. [/QUOTE]
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21st Century Carbide Mandrel Question
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