2005 Wildcat Bullets Price List.....

[3sixbits]

What is the difference between a hollow point and and open point bullet? It starts with the core seating process. The open point or tip is not the same as a hollow point in that the the core(lead)is seated square to the jacket no lead flow in to the tip, when the bullet goes into the point forming die. The point is formed and there is a cavity of no lead between the squared seated core and the end or tip of the bullet. THE HOLLOW POINT is different in that the lead is all the way to the end of the bullet tip or nose and then a punch is inserted into the open or folded tip of the bullet creating the hollow point. The true hollow point has different flight charistics than the open tip design. Most or all the match type bullets that the manufacturers sell are really open tip and not hollow point. Why then do they call them HP's? Why do people refer to the .45 COLT as the .45 long COLT? PERHAPS AS MANY OF US HAVE FOUND IN LIFE, that ignorance is bliss and why rock the boat? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Fiftydriver]

4ked Horn,

I hope I did not offend as I feel most of your information offered was right on.

I would liek to make a point here for everyone to read with no one in particular that this is directed to.

As you can see there are a vast number of Wildcat Bullets offered. There is not a person on this board that has tested or shot or purchased all of these different designs and can give a fully qualified expert opinion on such things as "open point", "Hollow Point", "Mag Tip" or "ULD".

There is one person that can answer these questions and that is the bullet maker himself. Now Richard is a very generous guy and will talk bullets with anyone that wants information. This is one of the perks dealing with such a man.

If you have legit questions about his bullets please, by all means drop him an e-mail or give him a call and find out directly from the man himself.

If your serious about learning about the Wildcat Bullets get ahold of him.

I can tell you that with the bullets I have been testing, mainly in 257, 6.5, 270 and 338, The ULD nose profile is in the 15 caliber range.

We have talked about going up to as steep as 20 but there are deminishing returns at these levels so 14 to 15 is basically what a ULD is defined by.

Most VLDs I would say are in the 12 range.

It is true VLD and ULD can mean several different things to several different people.

Why are a bunch of guys debating issues that we do not know for 100% and getting fired up about different opinion.

If you have a legit question and are intereted in possibly getting some of Wildcat Bullets, get ahold of Richard Graves. His e-mail is posted already but here it is again:

[email protected]

There is no better source then from the maker himself.

My only intention was to offer everyone on this board the inforamtion on bullet pricing so they could see if they wanted to try some of these bullets.

Unfortunately, at times I feel the presentation of a large number of options can often make nit pickers out of us.

If you want to know the specifics on a certain bullet, ask the man himself, I assure you he is one of the easiest guys to deal with in our industry!!!

He is going on a bear hunt this weekend and possibly into next week so wait until the middle of the week to e-mail him as he will not be around to reply!!

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[ricka0]

wildcatBullets
Can folks do a quick reality check of what I have put together (quick and dirty). All the data will eventually go into a DB but I would like to know what columns are important (I added OAL)

What do you think is the best way to list bullets, by calibre and weight (as I did with the .224) or as Richard did by calibre,weight, Jacket (like I did with the 6mm)?

I borrowed Jon A's pic, hope that is OK (until I get some myself).

I just work on this a few minutes every other day as I have time.

 

[4ked Horn]

Mike. I'm not mad in the least little bit. I recognised that what I wrote could easily come across that way so that is why I wrote that I wasn't mad, I just didn't get what was going on with your first question in relation to the statements you made after my response.

 

[4ked Horn]

Fifty, I am not offended. I used your correction as an example of a GOOD solid way to clear up a misunderstanding. You just said the truth and some of us learned something new. Tahdah. Problem solved.

I fully agree with every thing else you said about Richard and his knoledge of his bullets. I spent 20 minutes on the phone with him and 3 or 4 emails and I learned a ton. What I didn't learn was asked here on LRH because I know he is a very busy man.

I think that if any one has any questions about the particulars of his bullets or which one to use for your style of shooting they should email him or call him in the evenings. He is a VERY easy person to talk to. He will tell you more than you asked so dont call him if you are in a hurry. Call him when you can pay attention and I reccomend having a pen and paper handy to write questions as you think of them so they all get answered as you talk.

I would also like to add for those that don't know, he is a CUSTOM bullet maker. The ones I want him to make are not even on the price list exactly. He can tweak this or that as you wish within reason.

Now (kirby and other smithys) go look for a gunsmithing question I have for you in BB&B concerning my ruger M77

 

[Mikecr]

BigBore
What's really needed, and currently not offered by anyone, are bullet standards(or blueprints). It can be simple or complex, but unless the bullet maker can meet a particular standard -from lot to lot, we will be left in this continuous abstract.
For example, I have a bullet shelf in my cabinet(which is about to collapse) that holds many bullets differing from one purchase to another over the years. 200 139grLapuas that are ~.080 shorter than the previous 500. And 1000 of the same with longer boattails than either of the earlier purchases. My 500 140grBergers are .03 lower in BC than advertised by my measurements. I see the same in .224 & .243 from different makers. So I end up having to keep a catalog and decide what to use or sell(at a loss).
Currently the only solution is to buy large lots for the life of each of my barrels -before the barrel is made. No problem. Maybe Wildcat bullets. But before I buy large lots, I need to know -up front- what I will have.
So I turn to custom makers, but so far see that they deviate even more from any standard(being custom makers), and know almost nothing about their bullets! You get what you get apparently. So that makes it pretty easy to offer anything under the sun, right? I mean..their not actually meeting any standard.
It may be a pipedream, but I'd like to see Richard offer a blueprinted bullet, and commit to making them to that standard. That would really set him apart from the rest in my view, and benefit us more than abstract bullet making.
An rough example of such a standard:

 

[3sixbits]

[ QUOTE ]
wildcatBullets
Can folks do a quick reality check of what I have put together (quick and dirty). All the data will eventually go into a DB but I would like to know what columns are important (I added OAL)

What do you think is the best way to list bullets, by calibre and weight (as I did with the .224) or as Richard did by calibre,weight, Jacket (like I did with the 6mm)?

I borrowed Jon A's pic, hope that is OK (until I get some myself).

I just work on this a few minutes every other day as I have time.

[/ QUOTE ] Hey, my comments where not meant to rebuke anyone and I think you guys have done a fine job for Richard. That was not the point of the discussion it was only for or to point out the differences between the two types of bullets. I've only spent an hour or two on the phone with Richard. I'll tell you just like I told Richard, as a bullet maker myself, I would much rather shoot someone Else's bullets than make my own! I'm just like the rest of you guys I'm waiting on my bullets from Richard. We had a long discussion about how hard it is to get good jackets. The dies and technique are one issue, good jackets are a whole nother ball game. We talked long and hard about the people in the business of making bullets, the good the bad and the ugly of the die makers. As a personnel aside to this bullet making issue I can state that Richard does it right with these thick jackets and the bonded cores that is why I have many hundred on order with him! I'm a big proponent of Woodliegh Bullets as anyone who has read my posts knows, I believe that Richards bullets will work the same. No I don't buy bullets to kill paper! Richard will tell you if you ask that he makes bullets for hunters, that they work so well on paper is OK but he wants them to work on the real thing. Remember the name of this web site? Or is it longrange paperpunchers.com? There is just one hell of a lot of also ran bullets out there, you pays your money and you takes your chances. Richard is the real deal! I say this with some twenty plus years of bullet making under my belt. I told Richard that I did not know why all bullet makers did not list the length of there bullets, I'm vary glad to see that it has been added. I believe the shooters on this site can benefit from that information. THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK FOR RICHARD. We benefit from it !

 

[4ked Horn]

Mike. That is an outstanding idea and I for one would love to see it happen. I mentioned elswhere that I thought a big bullet maker like sierra could offer this sort of thing with their best selling match bullets by measuring a few things and selling boxes of matched lots +/- .001". but that is a side thought.

I am eventually going to order some bullets with the meplat left more open than normal and my concern was being able to order them the same way in the future. I would only be able to afford one or two hundred at a time but would like to be confident that my confirmed drops would work with the next batch. I was going to ask Richard if he or I should keep a few bullets to compare to for subsequent orders. I think being able to reference a blueprint and special modifications by the numbers would be a much better way to handle it.

Good thinking.

 

[ricka0]

[ QUOTE ]
4ked Horn writes: I would reccomend rearanging to look like this for consistancy:

[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely, but at this point I'm more interested in getting the Columns right. My Base Style shows Flat and HP, shouldn't that be Point style? Can you have a Mag TiP Flat?

Is it 10 ULD Ogive or does the .224 68 grain come in two Ogive styles, 10 and ULD?

BC, OAL, MD will be removed unless Richard wants them. If BC is left, it will also include a hyper-link to a page saying it's just an estimate - links to various Ballistic pages, G1 - G7 descripts, etc (this is what I'd do, it's up to Richard)

[ QUOTE ]
BigBore
What's really needed, and currently not offered by anyone, are bullet standards(or blueprints).

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that's a great idea but I'm not very bright or hard to impress. It's Richards site, I'm just implementing it. He may even ask me to take it down - perhaps he doesn't want a web site. I think he must be very busy now as so far I haven't got any responses to my questions I've sent him.

 

[4ked Horn]

As I understand it the base style is: Flat or RBBT

The point style is: HP (as used by Sierra or Hornady as related to match style bullets) or Mag Tip.

The ogives are: 8, 10 or ULD. We don't know if all the ULD ogives have the same curve or not, nor do we know what that curve is. This is one for Richard to answer. I do not know if the ogives are secant or tangent or a mix of both. I don't know if anyone cares so I don't know if it needs to be included with the ogive info. Again that would be Richards call.

Yes a bullet can have a magtip and a flat base.

Supposedly Richard has been hunting. Patience, patience. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Buffalobob]

Its Spring time and long hard working days for him.

 

[ricka0]

Straight from the horses mouth

Richards WildCat price list (unEdited)