200 yard groups . Need help

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by 270whiz, Nov 26, 2013.

  1. 270whiz

    270whiz Member

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    New guy Here, I found a nice load for my custom rem 700 270 win. It groups nicely at 100 yards and 1 inch high. Wife and I went to range and tested it out at 200 yards. .. Heres the question. At 200 yards it grouped it shots at 1 1/4 to 2 1/4 high . Wonder is it poor centering by us or poor load for rifle.?

    The load is 61.0 gr of H4831sc, Fed. 210m primer. 130 gr hornady sst.
    vel. 3226 fps out of 25 inch Bench mark custom barrel.

    This load is 1 gr under max form Hornady book.

    We are new to this and looking for help. And yes my wife out shot me at 200 yards !! gun)
     

    Attached Files:

  2. BrentM

    BrentM Well-Known Member

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    To me it looks like shooter to scope alignment issues. Consistently shooting high and right but with occasional pulled shots and grouped vertical stringing.

    IMHO, I think the shooter is not getting the same sight picture each time and it could be both of you have issues with the scope set up. I have an buddy with a fair amount of experience who is not consistent behind his scope. At 200 he can shoot MOA, but with his rifle I can shoot .25 moa. I don't like how is scope is set up but I also know how critical it is get in behind it because it is very particular.

    Part of the reason I say these things to you is that I don't see the weird flyers associated with inconsistent pressures/loads. At 200 yards the cross hair movement is quite a bit more noticable on paper.
     

  3. 270whiz

    270whiz Member

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    Thank you, Brent. This makes great sense. Mary was shooting my rifle and the lenght of pull is to long for her. [ her rifles in the shop ] I didnt feel real comfortable at shooting table myself. I will reload some more rounds and see if I cant get more comfortable and consentrate on my alignment. Thank you very much Sir.
     
  4. Salar600

    Salar600 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if you put only one 3 shots group at 100 yds but comparing one 3 shots group to two 6 shoots groups is statistically a bit unfair for the least. You know what I mean?

    One 3 shots group might be better than your average. On the other side if you pick 3 shots out of your 200 yds groups you can easily ended with a group under an inch.

    :rolleyes:
     
  5. 270whiz

    270whiz Member

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    Great piont. Salar600 . You are right about that.
     
  6. ICANHITHIMMAN

    ICANHITHIMMAN Well-Known Member

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    How fast where you firing? With small diameter factory barrels the heat from firing to fast will make your groups larger. Also in the future, it would help to do your load work up at 200m and not 100, this will allow your bullet more time to stabalize.
     
  7. Derek M.

    Derek M. Well-Known Member

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    He wrote that it is a 25" Benchmark barrel, but didn't mention contour. Good points otherwise.
     
  8. 270whiz

    270whiz Member

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    Its a heavy contour. Just above magnum. My main concern was it should be 1/2 low at 200 yrds. But they were still 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 high at 200 yards. It was 32 out and we took our time 1 1 /2 hours for 12 shots. I think Brentm Hit the nail on the head. Shooter to scope alginment. Couldnt get comfy on bench. Ordered a rised cheek pad to try out. Will take another run at it. Thanks for all the help.
     
  9. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    Re-zero at 200, then I'm sure you will find that your POI is higher at 100. Thats the way it should always be done, validate the trajectory at the longest range you want to shoot, then dial it back down for shorter range. Due to wind, zero the windage at 100 only. Gravity is more consistent that a breeze...
     
  10. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    270whiz,

    You and/or your wife are doing well.

    IF! all squares on all targets are 1" x 1" compare each 3 consecutive shots at 200 to the 6 shots shown at 100. Comparing 3 to 3 shows the rifle is doing it's part.

    As with a race car, driver consistency is vital. You mentioned that you were not "comfortable" at the bench. Things won't improve until you get comfortable.

    The 270 Win has been my life long friend. I'll bend over backwards to help a shooter that shoots that cartridge. It's a weakness bordering on addiction. :roll eyes:

    This is a long range shooting site. I'll come at it from that viewpoint.

    I recommend getting away from the bench. Not far away, just to the ground.:)

    Do the bipod thing with a good solid rear bag. Your rig has plenty of weight, I'm thinking and recoil with your stated load shouldn't bother either you or your wife.

    If you are shooting unexpectedly high @ 200 it maybe inconsistent or too little shoulder pressure is a problem. However, my 270 Win has always impacted higher at 200 when zeroed at 100.

    I'm shooting 140 anythings @ 3200. I'm surprised you can get your stated velocity with 4831. I could never reach 3000 with that stuff.

    I'm betting your rifle is good for 1/2 the group size shown, for 3 shots. With proper practice you and your wife will be also.

    I"m impressed that you get that much accuracy from SSTs. They haven't performed for me.

    Pay attention to cheek weld, shoulder pressure, bipod loading if shooting from one, and trigger break.

    Keep posting targets. They tell a story.

    Oh, don't waste too much barrel life messing with loads. Get one that you like then stretch the distance.

    Good luck and good shootin':cool:
     
  11. Derek M.

    Derek M. Well-Known Member

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    Is it not possible that the bullet is still "climbing" at 200 yards? I seem to remember shooting a 270 a few years ago (one of my many) :D and I was 2" high at 100 and 3" high at 200. Can't really remember if I chronographed that load or not but it turned out that I was launching a 130 NBT pretty darn fast. This was > 10 yrs ago but the barrel is 25.5" long. Just something to ponder.

    Center your zero to 100 yards and see if you are still higher at 200. I think that's what I did and much to my surprise my bullets were hitting higher, which blew my previous thoughts out of the water where all of the info I thought I knew was that "2 inches high at 100 yards MEANS your are zeroed at 200 yards."
     
  12. Derek M.

    Derek M. Well-Known Member

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    Oh, and I'm absolutely a like-minded individual to Roy when it comes to the 270 Win. When I search the forums, I hone in every time I see anything to do with it. My all time favorite rifle caliber, and likely always will be. That said, I rather enjoyed using my 6.5-284 in KY and SC this year killing a nice old 8 pointer and big juicy doe with that rifle using the 130 AB.
     
  13. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    Looking online: Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Rifle :: Choose by Caliber :: 270 Win :: 270 Win 130 gr GMX® Superformance®
    Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
    3190 2976 2769 2573 2385 2202
    1.5 1.20 0.00 -5.80 -16.80 -33.90

    So even the Hornady superformance load is following the laws of gravity...

    Looking at your 100 yard target it looks like the zero is about an inch high. That means that the "true" zero point is out beyond 100 yards some way. The add some other unaccounted for effects like a difference in elevation between the 100 and 200 yard target, a different hold on the rifle for the 2 different ranges, moving the face forward or back relative to the scope because of the increased range, inability to see the same aiming point at the longer range ??

    There are many things that could cause this outcome, but knowing where you are truly zeroed will require a bit more consistent shooter performance first.

    I agree with shooting prone for longer range if at all possible. Your upper body is unsupported on the bench and less than 1.3 of your body mass is really reacting to the recoil. Whereas prone you have all your weight behind the rifle, front and rear can be properly supported and you can take your time getting comfortable for the shot. I know our local DNR range does not allow prone shooting which is why I now have permanently set up steel targets at the farm at 160 and 320 yards.
     
  14. 270whiz

    270whiz Member

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    Thank you for all your help. This is a great place to get Good Solid Info !

    Roy, We spend most of our time practicing on sticks and bi-pods to keep it real.


    Wife shoots a 25-06 rem. Its in the shop for some

    tweaking. But a custom 270 is in her future . [ So she says ] LOL. Derek and

    Westcliffe, Thank you also. Be back at the range next week and get it worked out .