.200" Leade: Any problem here?

[Goofycat]

I have just reloaded a few .270 cases to where the bullets are .020" off the lands. The loaded cartridges fit fine in the rifle and the bolt closes with no problems. Interestingly, I had an old un-shot box cartridge lying around. The bullet in the cartridge seemed to be seated a lot farther into the case than was the just-reloaded bullet (130 grain Nosler). I compared the two cartridges with a Stoney gauge and found that there was over a .200" leade with the factory round in the Remington Mountain Rifle. Can't be erosion, since the gun has had perhaps only 50 rounds shot through it.

So, is a leade of more than a fifth of an inch customary for Remington and/or other non-custom rifles in the larger calibers, or is mine just abnormally long-throated? I called Remington and they didn't give me a good answer, asking me to send them the rifle and the cartridges so as to better clarify things. I haven't shot any of the new reloads and wonder if there will be pressure problems. I mean, a .200" difference in leade measurements has me wondering if I should set the bullets back more or leave them at .020" off the lands. I usually set the bullets back .010" for the very accurate varmint rifles, then play with that value to fine tune for accuracy.

Any ideas?

 

[Jamie6.5]

I have just reloaded a few .270 cases to where the bullets are .020" off the lands. The loaded cartridges fit fine in the rifle and the bolt closes with no problems. Interestingly, I had an old un-shot box cartridge lying around. The bullet in the cartridge seemed to be seated a lot farther into the case than was the just-reloaded bullet (130 grain Nosler). I compared the two cartridges with a Stoney gauge and found that there was over a .200" leade with the factory round in the Remington Mountain Rifle. Can't be erosion, since the gun has had perhaps only 50 rounds shot through it.

So, is a leade of more than a fifth of an inch customary for Remington and/or other non-custom rifles in the larger calibers, or is mine just abnormally long-throated? I called Remington and they didn't give me a good answer, asking me to send them the rifle and the cartridges so as to better clarify things. I haven't shot any of the new reloads and wonder if there will be pressure problems. I mean, a .200" difference in leade measurements has me wondering if I should set the bullets back more or leave them at .020" off the lands. I usually set the bullets back .010" for the very accurate varmint rifles, then play with that value to fine tune for accuracy.

Any ideas?

I've had 2 remington 700 .270s and the both had deep throats/long leade.
I asked my old 'smith about it on the first one and he showed me a 160gr round nosed factory load by Norma I think (it was many years ago).
Anyway, he explained that most rifle makers chamber .270s to accept these rounds without jamming that long round nosed slug into the lands.
Thus the deep throat. It made sense to me at the time and still does.
I don't mind it now that I know I can seat a 150gr tangent or double secant ogive bullet waaay out there and still be .020 off the lands. This makes for more powder capacity and lower pressures up around the max load(s). Thankfully the magazine is long enough to allow them.

YMMV,
Jamie

 

[boomtube]

"...is a leade of more than a fifth of an inch customary for Remington and/or other non-custom rifles in the larger calibers,"

Yes. And not just Rem, others as well. Factory sporting/hunting rifles are not intended to be BR guns, their throats HAVE to be long enough to allow seating of the longest commercial round availabale, safely.

Factory sporters rarely shoot best seated BR fashion, at or rinto the lands. Most shoot best from .030" to .125", or more, off the lands. And that's with some of the heavier (longer) bullets.

 

[Goofycat]

Whoa! If you said it, I believe it. I will play around with greater bullet set-backs to compare the accuracy. It looks like BR and large-caliber hunting rifles are two different animals. I had no idea, since I have only the .270, plus a Cooper .20VarTarg, and a .222 and a .22-250 (both 40x Remingtons) with blueprinted actions, BR barrels, triggers, and all the other stuff for maximum accuracy. The .222 is an original Remington Custom Shop 40X that is a joy to shoot. I like the .20VT also, but it somehow does not have the fit and finish of the two Remingtons.

If I ordered another rifle, I would probably look at a 6mmBR, but I really don't need a rifle in this caliber.....well, at least that is what I keep telling myself.

Anyway, thanks for the information on the leade differences. Back to the bullet-seating die.

Barry

 

[GlennRMK]

I've handloaded for a couple of my buddies. Both had Tikka T3s in .300 Win Mag. Both had very long throats. Most of my loads would only allow the bullets to be within .150 to .200" or more due to magazine clearence.

Both rifles were capable of sub .5" groups at 100 yards.

I usually put mine .020 to .050" off the lands except when clearence is limited.

 

[Goofycat]

Thanks, Glenn. I will spread out some three-shot groups, using the figures you posted. Should be interesting, and I will post the results in case anyone else had questions.

 

[GlennRMK]

I'd be interested in results. I haven't experimented with length a lot.

 

[Goofycat]

One of the posters in the 2005 threads said to never increase the OAL (to the ogive) lengths without reducing the powder charges. It makes sense, but the Hornady and Sierra manuals never mention anything about their suggested powder charge figures as compared to where the bullet is seated. In other words, different bullet seating depths will affect their published suggested powder charges. It only makes sense. I will call Sierra or Hornady to find out if their suggested powder weights are based on a huge freebore ("leade") or what.

 

[Goofycat]

Here's the scoop. I called Hornady with a few questions. Regarding case length, they said to make sure the cases are never over the maximum SAAMI published length (listed in the Hornady loading manual), but that if the cases are shorter than the maximum, to trim to the length of the shortest case in the batch, as long that trim length is no shorter than the one listed in the manual. For the .270, the shortest trim length is .010" less than the maximum length. In the current batch I am trimming, that means that I will trim all the cases to 2.535"...the length of the shortest case in the batch, and about midway between the max and minimum lengths in the Hornady manual.

As for the question of freebore vs. their suggested published powder charge data, they said that their data is based upon the maximum cartridge OAL, (listed in the manual as C.O.L.) as measured from the base of the cartridge to the tip of the bullet, not from base to ogive. The reason given as to why not the ogive was that the OAL in this case is because of different magazine lengths in different rifles. The C.O.L. lengths are listed below each of the pictured bullets. So...this answers the question of freebore vs. pressures. I.e., their powder charges are based upon their C.O.L. figures. Whether or not this method is better for the smaller centerfire calibers used in small varmint hunting and/or BR reloading, I don't know. I load fairly close to the lands for those rifles. But as for the .270 I think I will reload, taking into consideration that bullet seating with a much longer freebore is recommended and not to be a problem.

At this stage, I will start with the figures recommended by Hornady, reload three cartridges at .030", three at .040" and three at .050", then check for accuracy and signs of pressure overload.

 

[boomtube]

" 40x Remingtons) with blueprinted actions, BR barrels, triggers, and all the other stuff for maximum accuracy. The .222 is an original Remington Custom Shop 40X that is a joy to shoot."

Goofy, mine is in 6mm International. It's still all original, with the 2 oz trigger, and wears an original Remington 24X BR scope, the one that started the "short" (action mounted) target scopes. All 40Xs are/were Custom Shop products.

Mike Walker, who developed the 721/700/40X series of rifles, the .222 and designed the BR scopes is a friend of mine. I got the rifle in the mid 70s, got the scope from Mike just a few years ago. I treasure that rig!

Good luck!

 

[Goofycat]

Boomtube, so do I. It is my favorite rifle and is the last one I would sell.....if I had to sell, that is. Easy to reload, accurate, very little recoil. A marvelous BR rifle with the wide fore end. I take it hunting for ground squirrels with deadly effect....for the ground squirrels, that is. The fit and finish....well....I don't know if Remington still makes them the way they made mine. If I come across another one...especially in the shorter barrelled version, I would sure consider buying it. It was a BR classic for years, before the 6BR and the PPC came out.