1st post and thinking new LR hunting rig.

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by fmajor, Oct 8, 2009.

  1. fmajor

    fmajor Well-Known Member

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    Hi all,

    This is my 1st post here (1st post on any hunting/firearms site honestly).

    Out of the gate, i'd like to mention that i'm not a complete NEWB who's seen too much Hollywood or read too many hunting magazines. I started shooting when i was 6, 'bout 4 decades ago, and competetively for a number of years when i served under Pres. Ronald Reagan and lived in Fayetteville, NC - go Red Falcons!!!! I know long-distance marksmanship is a life-style commitment and i shot simply for the joy of it (as well as prep for hunting season - whitetails were nice, interactive targets as well as good food!).

    Anyway, i've had about a 12-year break from hunting and shooting and am thinking about putting together another long-range rig. I had a Rem 700 chambered in .300 Win Mag, 24" semi-custom full-bull bbl, Brown Precision stock, Mark IV Ultra 10x optic, Shilen 2-ounce trigger plus the "stock" trigger i honed and adjusted to 1.5lbs (yup, did a bit of 'smithing in there). It was a serious shooter.

    With Winchester brass, 71.2 grns of Reloader 22 (i think - it's been a long time), 190gr Sierra MK's, and CCI Mag primers it would hold 5 shots in a nice little cluster avg. .225" at 100yds. Fortunately/unfortunately, i had a significant change in the trajectory of my life (tactical, professional, civilian 'marksmanship' came off the vocational table) and sold it before i got to see what it'd do at 1k and out.

    So here i am today considering putting together another LR rig - strictly for hunting. I plan on using it for North American game up to elk. For larger species (or larger bears), i'll consider something with greater mass (.375 and up).

    I have a donor action (my high-school graduation present - a Remington 700 ADL chambered in 7mm Rem Mag). I'm thinking to screw on a Lilja 416 SS 26" bbl (fluted w/ Sendaro contour), adding a Timney or Jewell trigger (still have the 2 ounce Shilen too) and putting it in a MacMillan A2 or A3 stock. I am undecided (but not too concerned) about which optic, though will likely use a Picatinny rail and detachable rings/mounts.

    My dilemma is this:
    Do i go with the tried-n-true .300 Win Mag (which i have a couple thousand rounds of experience with) or the wicked-hot .300 Remington Ultra?

    There are a few questions for me sort out as well.
    Q1 - will the .300 RUM even fit in my donor action?
    Q2 - will the .300 RUM be a barrell-burning monster?
    Q3 - is the .300 RUM recoil that much more punishing than the .300 Win?
    Only i know this....though i'm reasonably OK with recoil, i don't wanna rock my fillings loose either...

    Again, the plan is to use it for North American game up to elk - at "long" distances (as in i'd love to do some elk hunting 'out West').

    I'm considering only the .300 Win or the .300 Rem Ultra.

    Thanks!!!!
     
  2. SkyScrapin

    SkyScrapin Active Member

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    I don't see why you would change calibers if you have so much saddle time behind the .300 you have. Make more sense to me, for you to leave it the way it is. You'll have plenty of punch for LR game.

    SS
     

  3. flyin lizard

    flyin lizard Well-Known Member

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    First off let me say welcome to LRH.com, and also to say thankyou very much for your service.

    I am going to guess that the guys with more experience are going to say get the RUM.
     
  4. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    +1

    The Win mag will work for what you want just fine . The RUM will up the power and trajectory
    and energy if you want more and to tame the recoil just add a heaver barrel (1 pound more
    of barrel weight more than the Win Mag will bring the RUM down to the same neighborhood as
    far as recoil.

    With a good quality stainless barrel ,barrel life will be almost the same.

    So you choose. Either will be great.

    J E CUSTOM
     
  5. Coyboy

    Coyboy Well-Known Member

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    I agree both will do well on elk for longer range, With your experience with the 300wm and the fact that you don't sound interested in a brake, I would say a 300 wm.

    Heavy bullets in a 300 rum do give quite a bit more felt recoil, but as JE said a heavier rifle will help some with that. But consider the fact of carrying extra weight and weather or not thats something you would want to do.

    Personally I would go 300 rum, just because they shoot exceptionally well, and are very easy to reload. I would also use a muzzle brake because it makes shooting a rum enjoyable.
     
  6. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    I'd go with J E Custom's recommendation. He's a seaoned fella and has been there and done that.

    Additionally, Here's what a 180 gr in a 300 WSM will do and its not nearly on the classwith the 300 Win.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Wish that were me but it isn't..... A friend.
     
  7. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    I would stay with the 300 Win mag of the two choices. The RUM w/o a brake is not fun at all.

    However, if you have a donor action I would recommend a 300 WSM over the 300 win. Here is why, 2-3x the barrel life and same ballisitics so no basic retooling your ballistics memory. You can run the 190s at 3000 fps+ and 210s at 2850-3000 depending on barrel and length. We have LR BR competition winning WSMs with 2500-4000 rds down the tubes. No Win Mags do that.

    I would sell the original action bolt and go buy a Pacific Tool and Gauge (PTG) bolt from Dave Kiff with WSM bolt face and either the M16 or Sako extractor set up correctly.

    No matter what choice, I would buy the PTG bolt and go with a Wyatts extended box.

    The other stock to look at is the Manners stocks. Less expensive and faster delivery.

    as for barrels, Lilja is good, Broughton, Bartein, Krieger, Brux, Douglas, Shilen etc are all good and will make a great shooting gun.

    BH
     
  8. trebark

    trebark Well-Known Member

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    Q1 - I'm pretty sure the 300RUM will fit in your 7mag action. Generally speaking the 7mag is 3.29" and the 300RUM is 3.6"

    Q2 - no

    Q3 - I don't think it's that much more punishing, but it's one that you wouldn't want to shoot for a many rounds. Put a muzzle brake on your new rig and it will tame it down to a pussy cat.

    300Win or 300RUM....300RUM no doubt.
     
  9. fmajor

    fmajor Well-Known Member

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    Thanks everyone!

    Just the sorta info i was hoping to get.

    It's looking like 5x affirmations for the .300 Win, though the .300 RUM is well-regarded and 1 illustration of and 2x suggestions for what .300 WSM can do.

    I'm definitely OK with adding a muzzle-brake, i simply didn't think of it. lightbulb

    If a muzzle-brake made the .300 RUM shoot like a pussycat w/no downside (aside from blast while at the range) why not? As i'm thinking it through, there shouldn't be any ballistic affect, right?

    Any suggestions for a "good" muzzle-brake (brand/type/price/etc)?

    I'm honestly surprised to hear there isn't more throat erosion using the .300 RUM. I'm thinking that higher velocities and more-powder burn seems like a natural place to eat up some barrel life (eg .220 Swift).

    In terms of energy deposit on target, i'm all for more is better within what is "acceptable" levels of shootability (recoil, muzzle blast, cost for ammo/components). I've never lost a deer that i shot at and wouldn't want to loose an elk b/c i choose the wrong platform given their strength. I know powerful cartridges cannot compensate for crappy marksmanship and boiler-room, 1-shot kills are my goal.

    To me and my ignorance, it's hard to argue with flat trajectory and tons of power when looking to go elk hunting.

    Admittedly, i have *never* been elk hunting - it's a long-held dream of mine. I'm simply wanting to make sure i have the right medicine for the matter at hand and cartridge selection is of primary consideration (along with ensuring excellent marksmanship, proper bullet and bullet placement).

    If accuracy is all the same between bullet choices, I'm thinking that the Swift Scirocco in 180gr would be a great bullet for the terminal velocities the .300 RUM enables. Any thoughts?

    Again, thanks so much for all the advice/info!

    PS - that was a *really* nice looking bear! I'd be in those woods with something bigger than .30cal 'cause i'm a big 'ol chicken!!!!
     
  10. FEENIX

    FEENIX Well-Known Member

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    fmajor,

    Welcome to LRH and enjoy! As others already noted, your .300 WM will do just fine ... yep, you do not "need" the .300 RUM for your intended purpose but we all understand you "want" it - I say go for it - must be a guy thing! :D

    For muzzle brakes, look no further than the sponsors , they have some of the best in the business - just do a search and you'll be overwhelmed.

    You might also want to consider the 200gr NAB.

    Good luck and happy safe shooting/hunting.
     
  11. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

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    Welcome and here is my .02 worth. You said about component expense and availability. From where I sit, your thousands of 300WM brass is enough of a reason for me to continue in that caliber. It will do better than the 300WSM (which I currently own) with heavier bullets, but not as well as the rum. I'm finding in my desire for accuracy that you can get decent 190grn and 200grn bullets from manufactures such as Berger, Sierra, and Nosler. I currently shoot 200 Sierra Matchkings in my WSM with great effect. With the WM I believe you would be able to out pace my WSM by 100 to 200 fps.

    The reason I say this is due to the bigger boiler room of the WM. With the new powders that are out (H1000, Retumbo, RL17, H4831SC, and H4350) there, you would be able to take advantage of that space. I can currently only get 2950fps out of my WSM. I know that you could do 100fps better with the WM. The rum will get you up over the 3100fps mark with the same bullet. Not having one I can't vouch for its speed.

    The Swift is an excellent bullet, but comes with a not so excellent price in my mind. I feel I can do the same with any of the other manufactures out there. I currently stick with Sierra and Hornady due to affordability purposes. I am planning to venture into the Berger realm when I can get a custom barrel on my rifle. Because I don't plan on shooting anything heavier than 200 grain pills, I am planning on going with a 1:11 twist which should decrease my pressures and give some better velocities. I am planning on stepping back to the 190 grain Bergers or JLK's that will give me the equivilant BC's of the 200gr SMK's.

    Good Luck on your build,
    Tank
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2009
  12. yobuck

    yobuck Well-Known Member

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    by all means install a muzzel brake regardless of your choice of cartridge. the major reason being that it will allow you to see your own hits. a big plus for long range hunting.
     
  13. fmajor

    fmajor Well-Known Member

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    Thanks again everyone!!!

    @Feenix - yes, i'll admit to wanting more down-range zap! I was looking at one of the gunsmith partners here for the poop on muzzle-brake/installation, but he's pretty well booked with work for the time being. Was also considering the Nosler AB in 180gr and with the .300 RUM a 200gr becomes a viable component, but like more what i've read about the Scirroco (though not available in 200gr size.....).

    @Tank - I don't possess thousands of brass casings for the .300 Win, i've shot thousands (in the neighborhood of around 3,000). With my first rifle, i was getting around 2,900fps with the 190gr SMK, but backed off a bit for a more accurate load (can't remember exactly how much - it's been like 12 years since then).

    As to pills, i'm most interested in the non-lead tip bullets which don't deform in the box (or when i drop them..... :rolleyes: ). The rifle will tell me which one it likes the best, but i do have preferences with which i'd start.

    I currently serve the Lord over here, so when He's done with me here, i'll get real serious about putting this project on the hot-burner. I'll just have to buy every thing all over again (sold it all at a critical stage of my life in Him).

    THanks again,

    frank
     
  14. Good

    Good Well-Known Member

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    Good to hear. Stay safe and I'll offer up a prayer for you.gun)

    I'm really looking at the 7RUM for a 1 gun do all. 'I've been told' at 400yds it holds more energy than the 300RUM, and you can get the Wildcat 200g bullet with insane BC for even more performance. I think that's a great gun to build.

    On another note, I'd really really like to have a two-gun rig. Two guns built identically, one in something like 6mmBRDX and the other in 338 Norma Mag. The only difference would be brakes. I don't think I'd put a brake on the 6mm, but the 338 would definitely need one. This brake would probably be a Kirby Allen Painkiller. I'd like both rifles to be the same weight, same trigger and stocks and same glass. This way, as long as you have the correct bullets (!!!) both guns would feel the same, promoting consistency, and where I come from, consistency = accuracy.:D Then, you'd have something that truly could do everything from varmints and predators up to the bear/whatever at whatever distances.

    God bless,
    Tim.
    Rom 10:13