1903A3 reloading trouble

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by CA30-06, Jun 29, 2014.

  1. CA30-06

    CA30-06 Active Member

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    Have a question and hope someone has the knowledge to help.

    I am trying to reload some 30-06 rounds for my 1903A3 sportster.
    I have grouped matching head stamps, full lengthen sized all brass, trimmed to within a couple thousands of each other and seated 168gr boat tail h.p. hornadays to the book and the bolt will not close. The over all length is .010 more than a factory Winchester load which chambers fine every time. The rifle has never had a problem with any factory loads I have asked it to shoot.

    If I seat the bullet so the case is the same overall length as the factory load, it will be to deep. Is this a big concern? Is it a chamber problem? All brass is within spec per hornaday handbook vol 2.

    Any help is greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. FearNoWind

    FearNoWind Well-Known Member

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  3. idaho elk hunter

    idaho elk hunter Well-Known Member

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    Put through a full length Small Base die set, Check the overall length of the sized brass and trim .010 shorter than max length. If you continue to have this problem then check your headspacing and bump your shoulder back. If you still have the problem then all is not lost. You will have a reason to buy your Christmas present 6 months early,,NEW RIFLE!:D
     
  4. CA30-06

    CA30-06 Active Member

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    I am using a RCBS full length die and a set of digital calipers to measure from tip to base. I am pretty sure I am running them through enough. The die is set to touch the shell holder when the press is at full stroke and then backed out 1/8th of a turn per the RCBS instructions. When I trim the cases they are trimmed a bit more that .010 under the max length. Is this the right die to be using? Could I be trimming too much? Is there a measurement I'm not looking at? These are the first reloads for my '06 I'm doing and just got the case trimmer so doing it and setting it up correctly the first time is worth asking even the mundane questions.
     
  5. Engineering101

    Engineering101 Well-Known Member

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    A30-06

    To have your full length RCBS die setup properly you need to have the shell holder contact the bottom of the resizing die with the ram all the way up and then screw the die in 1/8 more turn so you can feel it cam over when resizing. You said you backed off 1/8 turn which is the wrong direction. A minor point as I doubt this is what is causing your problem as you would end up with at least a neck sized piece of brass which should still allow you to close the bolt but not as easily as with properly full length resized brass.
     
  6. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    Factory die directions could be wrong for several reasons if the die is chambered too deep or too short. If too long it will not allow you to push the shoulder. If too short you will push the shoulder back to the point it flares the body/shoulder junction out and it will not chamber.

    Measure the brass and adjust from that is correct way!

    Where is your resized shoulder compared to virgin and once fired brass?

    What is the body measurement about .250 above the extractor groove on resized versus fired and virgin brass?

    COAL is the wrong measurement also. You must measure where the ogive is not COAL. You might find your reloaded bullet ogive is out much further and that is your problem.

    .010 you could not even feel and it certainly would not be enough to stop chambering.
     
  7. CA30-06

    CA30-06 Active Member

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    Where would I measure the shoulder from? The base? And what is the "ogive"? I have never heard of it. In my defense, I am new to this.
     
  8. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    You say your bolt won't close on hand loaded rounds... Will it (the bolt) close when you put a resized empty in and try to close the bolt. If it won't it's likely a sizing die set up issue as others have said. If it will close you need to find your seating depth with your bullet and never go over it. How is your primer depth? Are you a couple of thou deep or are they proud? Proud primers mess up chambering and can be dangerous.
     
  9. FearNoWind

    FearNoWind Well-Known Member

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    Most technical data list COAL (from the head of the case to the tip of the bullet).
    The majority of the reloaders I know use the OAL or CBTO (from the ogive tangent to the base of the case) and measure with a Hornady OAL gauge.

    Read:
    Effects of Cartridge Over All Length (COAL) and Cartridge Base To Ogive (CBTO) - Part 2 | Berger BulletsBerger Bullets

    The ogive, put as simply as I can, is that area from the tip of the bullet to the point where the bullet reaches approximately the diameter of the bore.
    Read the link above carefully and you'll see some examples of where the OAL/CBTO and COAL differ, even though the OAL/CBTO (from the ogive tangent to the base of the case) for both loaded rounds are identical.
    There is nothing inferior about the dies you're using. RCBS makes very good stuff.
    Based on what you've added regarding the setup, I'd suggest resetting the die as suggested (about 1/8 turn beyond the ram/die contact point) or just enough to know that the full stroke "cams" over (it'll give a slight click). That takes care of any slop in the threads where the die mates with the press.
    I disagree with some of the notes here about .010 short not affecting the ability of the round to load properly. With a case shoulder, it's not as much about length as it is about angle and if you're .010 short your shoulder angle is also out of sync. with the chamber shoulder angle and it sure as heck could be your problem.

    Some more reading that might help:
    http://www.accurateshooter.com/ballistics/tangent-vs-secant-vs-hybrid-ogive-bullets/
     
  10. AZShooter

    AZShooter Well-Known Member

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    I read the entire thread. As a new handloader I will bet the thread got very technical for you. How about simplifying it?

    Answer this question then we can advise you:

    Will a empty sized piece of brass fit the rifle?

    Once we know this answer we can proceed with the next step.
     
  11. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    The OP was talking .010 difference on COAL which will not make a difference by itself in chambering. You can hard chamber at least .030.

    Now .010 in shoulder is huge and could be an issue but that was not the discussion.

    My bet is bullet ogive at this point.
     
  12. CA30-06

    CA30-06 Active Member

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    No it will not. After trying a few of the other suggestions given from this thread, I resized and trimmed 3 cases to exactly what the book says and none of them would chamber. None of them where primed either. They where all completely bare cases
     
  13. morcey2

    morcey2 Well-Known Member

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    Take one of the sized and trimmed cases and color it up really good with a black sharpie, then try to chamber it again. When you take it out, look for areas that have had the sharpie ink rubbed off. (you can even seat a bullet in the empty if it helps with feeding since the bullet has been eliminated as the issue.)

    Also, are you putting the case in the magazine and letting the bolt pick it up so the rim is under the extractor or are you just dropping it in and having the extractor climb over the rim? If the empty cases will feed from the magazine, I'd do that just to eliminate another variable. I have 2 1903s and I don't think either one of them will close on a round that wasn't stripped correctly from the magazine.

    Matt
     
  14. AZShooter

    AZShooter Well-Known Member

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    Excellent point Matt. None of us thought to mention the extractor issue as a controlled round feed must be fed from magazine. BUT Ca30-06 did say he got the factory stuff to fit. Sometimes difficult to do this stuff on line.

    CA-30-06. Just for grins set up the die so you have to cam over the top with the die screwed down past contact with the shell holder and size a case. See if IT fits.

    If it won't fit then we can come up with more ideas. I am thinking rim diameter and other obscure things....