175g uld rbbt testing at 800 yards

Mike- Its weird how pressure/humidity has that much effect on bullets. I didn't think it would matter that much. I need to get one of those Kestrel's anyways as my Brunton windmeter took a crap on me right before elk season /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
Reed- I haven't tried any 180g VLD's as of yet. I was wanting to, but didn't want to try them if my 9 1/4" wont stabilize them. I'd be more then happy to test a few of the 180's if you have some extra lying around. More just to see if my rifle will stabilize them then anything, then I'll buy a whole box. I did however shoot some 168g VLD's a little earlier and Berger list them at .643. So I entered that along with my velocity at 2950, and my first shots at 800 were dead on. The same went for the 30 cal, 210g VLD. It was advertised at like .640, I entered that and at 1150 yards, I was dead on. I was just surprised that it took so many more clicks to actually get dead on, to me that just means the BC isn't as good as some bullets. I agree that the wildcats are very hard to beat accuracy wise, but like you, I think the Berger VLD's are built a little bit more streamlined, which in turn gives a little higher BC.
 
Canute Two- I kinda get what your saying, but its still a little over my head..The elevation where I'm at is actually around 600-700. Like I said, I"ve shot the 168's earlier and they were spot on at .643. I dont have any more of those bullets to shoot side by side, but I know the Berger fly's a little better. The 180g VLD should be even better. I just hope my 9 1/4" will stabilize them.
 
25-06, 600-700 feet of Altitude is going to have a miniscule impact on Pressure which in turn will have a miniscule impact on your ballistics program.

As I understand standard pressures at altitudes (I.E. what your ballistics program will use) 29.53" Hg mercury is the standard for sea level. Every 1000 ft of altitude you increase will decrease the standard pressure 1".... so Roy in Idaho at 4500' asl will have a standard pressure of 4.5" Hg less... or 25.03" Hg.

The problem arises when the pressure for a given day is far from "standard" for that altitude. Supposing your standard altitude pressure @ 700 feet is 28.83"Hg, but the actual station pressure (the true barometric pressure) is 29" Hg, it would have SOME difference, resulting in a lower impact.

How much lower? Did this even have an effect on your shooting results? I don't know and maybe, maybe not respectively. For my .308 loads, via JBM ballistics, 1" Hg pressure drop results in approx. 1 MOA less elevation required @ 1000 yds. That is for a .462 B.C. bullet @ 2750 fps with a 1.5" sight height. I don't know how much 10-11" @ 1000 yards would effect calculating a ballistic coefficient... but 2 feet @ 800 yards would seem to require a SIGNIFICANT barometric pressure change.

I'm rambling, sorry, but after some review of your experience I think the best way to know would be a head to head comparison with a known B.C. bullet.... or find the station pressure for your area and try again.

Either way, let us know more. This has been an interesting thread.
 
Here is a little something else to keep in mind: Is your zero a true zero? I had a similar result with the 200 gr AB in my 300 RUM. It was dropping more than my table said it should ( by a couple of clicks @ 800 yds). I compensated by lowering the BC in the program. However, someone on this forum mentioned I might want to double check my zero. I was supposed to be dead-on @ 200 yds, but when I looked closer, I could see that my group could be 1/4 to 1/2 inch low, depending on how I measured it. That translates into more drop the further out you go. Certainly a click or two at 1000 yds. Just a thought.
 
I don't know if this is of any use but, at 471 ft. above sea level, approx. 85 degrees. A 9 1/4 twist will hold less than 1 MOA in a 7 WSM running a 180gr. Berger VLD 2775 fps @ 1,000 yards.
 
I can not add much to what has already been mentioned as far as ballistic information and such.

I would however like to make a comment or state my opinion on zeroing at 100 yards and then working off that zero for long range shooting.

Personally, I see to much error in this to be a real accurate way to set your long range rifle up. Its about the same thing as shooting groups at 100 yards to give you an idea of your load is accurate and consistant or not.

What I like to do is develope my load, get the velocity where I would like it if possible and then with the estimated BC I will be using I will develope a drop chart on the ballistic programs.

I will take that print out to the range and set up.

Most of you know I like to use the reticle reference points for hold over at long range in my big game rifles.

So what I will do is for example, and this is simply an example, say my drop chart says my 200 gr ULD out of my 7mm AM should be dead on at 600 yards using the second mil reference line down in the TMR reticle.

What I will do is set up a targer at this 600 yards and zero that second mil line dead on at this 600 yard range so that point on the drop chart meets as perfectly as possible to the actual bullet flight.

Once that is done, I will then set up and shoot groups at 300 and say 900 yards as well using the appropriate reference point that my drop chart tells me I should be using for those ranges.

For example, 300 yards may be dead on the main cross hair and 900 yards may be -4.5 mils down for the called for hold.

I will shoot groups at these ranges and record the data. On the first outings of developing a bullets BC more often then not even though you have the 600 yard zero dead on, the other two ranges will not be.

Say for example at 300 yards I was hitting +3/4 moa and at 900 yards I was grouping around 1 moa low.

I would then take this group impact position data and start tweaking my ballistic program using the BC mainly. In this case I would start to decrease my estimated BC until the projected bullet flight path came as close as I could get it to what I was seeing at 300, 600 and 900 yard impacts.

Then I would print out a new revised drop chart using the corrected BC and head back out to the range and test the three ranges again repeating the process until my ballistic model was matching my actual bullet flight out to the ranges I wanted to shoot out to.

Point is, a zero at longer range is much more accurate then a zero at 100 yards. Having a group of 1/2 moa at 100 yards could cover a pretty wide range of actual zeros at extended range.

I like to start out there a ways and work my way back in. A slight error in zero at 100 yards can often make a huge difference at long range. But, a long range zero will produce more accurate results at all ranges.

Just a thought.

Also, when I read your post the first thing I thought was I wondered what the actual travel in your scope was for each click. As has already been mentioned, do not rely on the advertised click value in your scope. They are seldom exactly what they claim to be and at times can be off a dramatic amount, especially at long range.

I am not saying your BC values are not close for your conditions. I have not used that specific bullet to be able to offer any ballistic information. I can however say that I have used the 169.5 gr ULD RBBT ALOT and the two bullets are very similiar in design. At my altitude and average pressure I use a BC in the .72 range for my 270 AMs to get the ballistic model to match up with actual bullet flight.

That said, we are alot higher then sea level and the air is drier then a popcorn fart most of the year which makes a big difference as far as how easily the bullet will slip through the air.

Good Shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)
 
Well guys, I think I've found the problem as to why the BC wasn't what I thought. I totally forgot that when talking to Richard, I specified that I wanted to ensure my bullet would open up at long range so therefor he opened up the point and meplat was a tad different. I'm sorry for all the fuss..just reporting what I had found. I knew there had to be a better explanation. Thanks for helping bring that to my attention. Thanks to everyone for the help and suggestions as well.
 
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