168gr .308 to 1000 & Beyond .... Anyone Doing It???

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Muttt, Jun 23, 2012.

  1. Muttt

    Muttt Well-Known Member

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    I'm looking to take my .308 out to 1000 (and possibly beyond). I'm shooting a Remington 700 SPS Tactical. 20 inch barrel, 1:12 twist. I'm getting sub .5 MOA from 100 out to 600 using my handloaded 168 grain AMAX. I'm using 42.7 gr of AA2520 with CCI primers. Anyway, I keep hearing "if you want to take it to 1000, you'll need to use 175 gr and higher". I know there's gotta be some people out there that are shooting 168 gr to some success. I have shoot plenty, I've just never shot a .308 past 600 yards. Part of the problem is finding an area that will support 1000 yards.

    The are several reasons for me not wanting to go up in weight. The first one is twist. I don't have the 1:12 twist, so I don't think the higher weights would stabilize enough. One other reason is the amount of powder, bullets, primers .... etc that I would burn up trying to work up a load that may or may not stabilize with my current barrel. Another, is the problem with finding a good area to shoot. So, difficult to work up a round specifically for 1000 yards.

    Anyway, if there are others out there using 168's with some success, I would like to hear about what your using.
     
  2. Ridgerunner665

    Ridgerunner665 Well-Known Member

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    Some 168 grain bullets will make it to 1,000 when started at 2,550 fps...others will not, the 168 SMK (the bullet that gave all 168 grain bullets their bad reputation) will not...its all in the ballistic coefficient of a particular bullet.

    I have had some success with Nosler 168 Ballistic Tips at 2,600 fps muzzle velocity (thats a very hot load in a 20" barrel, its hard on the brass)...I have not used the Hornady A-max except for the 208 grain.

    You'll be darn lucky if you can get 2,550 fps from that barrel (I had one of those rifles)...2,520 was about all it wanted to produce.
     

  3. scsims

    scsims Well-Known Member

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    I've shot the 168 SMKs out to 830 yards with sub MOA groups. Although my velocity is 2750 out of a 26" barrel 1:12 twist.

    I'm currently loading up 175gr SMKs and I think that the 1:12 twist should work just fine to stabilize them.
     
  4. Muttt

    Muttt Well-Known Member

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    Well,

    I'm currently getting around 2660 from those loads. And, I am no where near max with the AA2520. The reason I picked the 42.7gr charge was due to a very good accruacy node. I can take it all the way up to 44gr. Although it would give me much better velocity, the accuracy will drop off a bit.

    Guess I'll just have to give er a try. The AMAX and the Noslers both perform the same in my Grendel, hope they perform the same in my .308.

    I'll probably resurrect this thread when I finally get a chance to push it out to 1000.
     
  5. green 788

    green 788 Well-Known Member

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    Your 12 twist will easily stabilize the 178 AMAX, if you're a fan of Hornady bullets... I shoot the 178's in 30-06 and .308, and they'll cake-walk to 1000 yards with as little as 2500 fps MV.

    Since it's hard to find a range to shoot 1000 yards, it would seem to me that you'd rather go with a sure thing--the heavier bullet--than hope for making enough velocity to get the 168's to 1000 yards, something you can't be nearly as sure of.

    There are some "go to" .308 recipes with the 178's... you can work up to 44.2 grains of Varget for a likely 2600 fps from your 20" barrel... and 42.0 grains of IMR 4895 is a great recipe that works in most .308's, making around 2550 from your rifle, estimating of course. This is in Winchester brass, by the way...

    You really won't need to spend a lot of time and material making the heavier bullets work. Click the link in my signature line for an understanding of the OCW loading process, and you'll hopefully see what I'm talking about. In less than 20 shots, you'll be pretty much there if you follow the directions.

    For tighter extreme spreads, the larger case fill of the 44.2 grain Varget charge will serve you better.

    Work up to these charges, of course. I shouldn't have to mention that--it should go without saying--but I've had some encounters with self appointed mall cops lately that may perhaps expect me to state the obvious anyway. :)

    If you're really set on the 168's, stick with the AMAX... JBM says they'll make it to 1000+ with lower velocities as well. Play around with JBM a bit for some more info... http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

    Dan
     
  6. GNERGY

    GNERGY Guest

    I have been playing with the 168 Berger hybrids and with 47.5 gr AA2520 out of a 22 in. Rem. 5R barrel I am getting 2800 fps. I am using Lapua palma brass and Fed. match primers. It will shoot 1/2 inch groups at 300 yds. if I do my part. I think the shorter bearing surface lets it be shot at higher velocities. It should give you more than enough velocity for your purpose.
    Tarey
     
  7. Muttt

    Muttt Well-Known Member

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    Isn't that a mighty hot load with AA2520? My book says max is 44 grains.
     
  8. GNERGY

    GNERGY Guest

    The Hybrids have a shorter bearing surface. I found this to be true when I tested some .338 250gr. Hybrid OTM Tacticals for Berger in March. I was able to push them as fast as the Barnes 225 TTSX's in my 338 Ultra mag. But being limited to 100 bullets for the test, I could only do so much testing.
    When I did the load development for the 168 Hybrids in my 308, I went up in 1/2 grain increments to find what shot the smallest groups. 47.5 grains AA 2520 grouped best in my rifle. I have loaded that brass over 5 times and don't have loose primer pockets and the bolt is easy to open. All rifles are different. Loading manuals are 10% under for safety and liability reasons.
    Did you test for your max load and back down for load development?
    At 48.5 grains of AA 2520 my bolt started to get hard to lift.
    Tarey
     
  9. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    If anyone gets sub .5 MOA accuracy at 600 with AA2520 (that is, no group over 3 inches), they're probably the only one who does. Ball powder's never been popular with top competitors. 168's in a .308 case have typically performed best accuracy wise with IMR4064 or Varget.

    I think you'll be hard pressed to get enough muzzle velocity with safe peak pressures from a 20 inch barrel to keep any 168 supersonic through 1000 yards. Same for heavier bullets in my opinion.
     
  10. 500mag_guy

    500mag_guy Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hijack but im getting ready to start working on a load for my 308 win in a Remington model 700 sps varmint with a 1:12 twist 26" barrel.

    I was thinking about the 185 gr bergers? Good choice? Or should i be using 175 gr bergers?
    Ill be using it for 1000 - 1200 yard shooting using Varget for powder.

    Thanks for any help, 500
     
  11. Ridgerunner665

    Ridgerunner665 Well-Known Member

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    If you're going that far (1,200) I'd recommend the Hornady 208 grain Amax.
     
  12. 500mag_guy

    500mag_guy Well-Known Member

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    What would the 185gr. Be good out to?

    I suppose a 1000yds would be about all id be shooting with this stick.

    Shh!!! Dont tell anyone but ill probably be using it for deer hunting.
     
  13. Ridgerunner665

    Ridgerunner665 Well-Known Member

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    With all due respect...you need more gun than that for 1,000 yard deer.

    The 185 Berger has the power for deer to 600 yards...it lacks the BC of the 208 Amax, which has the power for deer to 800 yards and will be much easier to shoot in the wind.

    For a 1,000 yard .30 caliber deer getter....300 Win Mag is the minimum, and a bit more is better.
     
  14. 500mag_guy

    500mag_guy Well-Known Member

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    Ya i was thinking about it after id posted and a 1000 for a non magnum is a little pushing it.

    I have a 300Rum for the long shooting then the lapua for really reaching out there but i think all just keep the 308 for inside 600 as you had said.

    For 600 yards being my max on deer would the 185gr be fine?