I have a 7mm300WM Wildcat that cranks Out Burger Hunting 168 [email protected] buddy of mine shot a bear 300 + pounds last year at 450 yards 2-3 inches behind the front shoulder slightly quartered away.. After 90 minutes crossing the canyon we found a very ****ed off boar... A quick expire shot to the CPU... And the excitement was over.. We found a huge entrance 4"+ but no real internal damage. Any experience with these vld's and Bears?? He says they are junk and wants me to change bullets, but I have 400 more.. I have had great success with deer.. Thanks Jesterg
168Berg Hunting VLD'S Bear Worthy???
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badandy970
Well-Known Member
IDK I shot an Alaskan brown bear with my 30.06 and a 162 AMAX. It was DRT just smoke checked it.
etisll40
Well-Known Member
How did the Amax kill the brownie? Head shot? If not head, tell us the wound details and at what distance? I'm thinking about loading some Amax's, target and hunting.
Broz
Well-Known Member
We kill some elk every year with the 168 Berger HVLD's. Never had the results you did. But we are not running them that fast either. We have taken several animals with 180's over 3100 from the 7mm-300's I put together and again good results and not one tracking job. So I don't know what happened with your experience.
Here is some pics on entrance and exit of a 210 HVLD in a black bear from my 300 win. As you can see I have great success with them as well as the 215's.
Jeff
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f88/my-2011-black-bear-my-300-wm-73292/
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Here is some pics on entrance and exit of a 210 HVLD in a black bear from my 300 win. As you can see I have great success with them as well as the 215's.
Jeff
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f88/my-2011-black-bear-my-300-wm-73292/
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Broz
Well-Known Member
Also curious as to what barrel you have and twist rate. Is it by chance a 3 or 4 grove? It seems to me that reports like yours are often associated with some of the lighter bullets for caliber, fast twists, high velocity and deeper jacket scribing 3 and 4 grove barrels. That's just from my personal observations, and some agree with me. But no hard data yet.
Jeff
Jeff
Jeff, your just the one I was hoping to chime in so thanks.. I knew you had one and was hoping you shot bergers.. And would have some input..
My gun was built off of a 700 sendero ssfluted 7mm gun.Rechambered to house the 300 so its not the PRACTICAL..
But it shoots great with the 168 .375@100not as well with the 180.750@100 which is what I wanted to use..So to bad for me. Im not sure of the twist but it has 6 riflings in the barrel. .What speed do you toss the bergers at?
Thanks to all the the replys..
My gun was built off of a 700 sendero ssfluted 7mm gun.Rechambered to house the 300 so its not the PRACTICAL..
But it shoots great with the 168 .375@100not as well with the 180.750@100 which is what I wanted to use..So to bad for me. Im not sure of the twist but it has 6 riflings in the barrel. .What speed do you toss the bergers at?
Thanks to all the the replys..
Broz
Well-Known Member
Your factory barrel is probably a 1 in 9.25 twist. If I remember correctly.
The rifle I set up last was an older 7mm Rem. Sendero with factory tube 26". We are shooting 71.5 gr of H-1000 in it with a 168 HVLD Berger. I don't remember what the velocity worked out to be, but it was under 2900 I am sure.
Not looking for excuses but bear are often in shrubs and brush. Is there a chance the bullet hit a twig first on that bear?
Did the bear go far after the first shot?
I take it you used the same rifle up close for the finish shot, how did it preform up close?
You said these bullets have preformed great on deer, then I don't know why they would not on bear if placed well?
Jeff
The rifle I set up last was an older 7mm Rem. Sendero with factory tube 26". We are shooting 71.5 gr of H-1000 in it with a 168 HVLD Berger. I don't remember what the velocity worked out to be, but it was under 2900 I am sure.
Not looking for excuses but bear are often in shrubs and brush. Is there a chance the bullet hit a twig first on that bear?
Did the bear go far after the first shot?
I take it you used the same rifle up close for the finish shot, how did it preform up close?
You said these bullets have preformed great on deer, then I don't know why they would not on bear if placed well?
Jeff
Broz
Well-Known Member
This was 180's from a 7 WSM but they must have worked well here.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/7wsm-180-berger-takes-down-two-grizzlies-78901/
Jeff
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/7wsm-180-berger-takes-down-two-grizzlies-78901/
Jeff
The bear was in a big green field no bushes.. after the shot it probably went close to 400 yards.We hunt steep country so we take a paking gun when we go down in the canyons.We also hunt in a group and have 2 spotters with good glass to verify shot placement, and to report for follow up shots..The same friend was using his 7 mag with the same bullet at 2870 and had 2 bad experiences prior to this one under 500 yrds. So I said use my gun, it has more energy!!! Thinking that bears must be a little more resilliant than Black Tail or Mullies.. But was I wrong.. Fortunatly this Bear was harvested. My brother shoots a 300 wby with 210 hvlds and got a bear close to 400 lbs. @380 yrds. Perfectly broadside and flat, The bullet hit 1 rib and made it through the vitals, but nothing close to a pass through..
I hate hunts gone wrong.. I know LR is do able and sucessful for bears.. but just want to know if were using the wrong projectile???
I hate hunts gone wrong.. I know LR is do able and sucessful for bears.. but just want to know if were using the wrong projectile???
Broz
Well-Known Member
Bullet choice is something we all need to do to suit how we want them to perform. The same bullets that some like I quit using years ago and much prefer what I use today. No bullet is perfect at all distances, I use what I do because they destroy vitals, and at long range I still get expansion and exits. I choose my bullet performance for the long pokes, but they still give me one shot kills up close destroying vitals.
I would not have any issues using a 168 Berger for bear. But that is not what is important. What is important is that you choose what you have confidence in. Even if it is something I or someone else does not like.
Remember these 3 things.
No bullet is perfect at all distances and velocities.
Shot placement is king.
And, There is never a guarantee when hunting.
Jeff
Ps:
One other suggestion, and only a suggestion, would be to buy 1 box of Berger 168 VLD Match Targets. They will fly the same as your HVLD's but have a little thicker jacket that should control expansion better up close with your high velocity chambering.
I would not have any issues using a 168 Berger for bear. But that is not what is important. What is important is that you choose what you have confidence in. Even if it is something I or someone else does not like.
Remember these 3 things.
No bullet is perfect at all distances and velocities.
Shot placement is king.
And, There is never a guarantee when hunting.
Jeff
Ps:
One other suggestion, and only a suggestion, would be to buy 1 box of Berger 168 VLD Match Targets. They will fly the same as your HVLD's but have a little thicker jacket that should control expansion better up close with your high velocity chambering.
I shot a rocky mt bighorn not quite broadside facing away. behind the ribs exactly where i aimed. 296 yards . did not pass through. ram went 10 yards. my buddy shot a Big mule deer (228") . 203 yards, b roadside did not pass through. he shot an telope 590 yards it did make it through. mine is a sendero 7mm with a krieger 9 twist. 2900 fps. they are "soft" of really expand fast. beware. you may want to try an accubond.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
I've seen several bull elk killed with the 168 Berger hunting bullet, one was at 50 yards day dreaming when a buddy put one through his shoulder with the bullet traveling at a step angle up the base of his neck and ending up under the hide on the neck. He's killed probably close to 15 animals with them all one shot down and most exiting.
I load for a guy with a 7mag and since the shooter tends to shoot elk in the front end I loaded the 168 Target bullet, last year he killed four animals ranging from bull and cow elk to deer, one real nice muley buck took one from one hip through his body and exiting his opposing front shoulder, very nice wound channel and he didn't argue, ranges were from under 100 to just over 500 yards.
IMO if a Berger is opening on the surface with a large entrance then something is weakening the jacket be it heavy fowling, a rough throat or velocity. If a Berger is working normal and jacket integrity is good the entrances I've seen are hard to find with very little evidence of opening for a couple inches sometimes more. I would try a Berger Target and shoot something with it to compare, that may shed some light on what is happening. A couple elk guides around here have switched to the 168 Target bullet for elk.
I load for a guy with a 7mag and since the shooter tends to shoot elk in the front end I loaded the 168 Target bullet, last year he killed four animals ranging from bull and cow elk to deer, one real nice muley buck took one from one hip through his body and exiting his opposing front shoulder, very nice wound channel and he didn't argue, ranges were from under 100 to just over 500 yards.
IMO if a Berger is opening on the surface with a large entrance then something is weakening the jacket be it heavy fowling, a rough throat or velocity. If a Berger is working normal and jacket integrity is good the entrances I've seen are hard to find with very little evidence of opening for a couple inches sometimes more. I would try a Berger Target and shoot something with it to compare, that may shed some light on what is happening. A couple elk guides around here have switched to the 168 Target bullet for elk.
During all this carnage my bro. Called the berger rep. They said no target bullets for hunting!!! Whatever... we have been thinking that they would be better for mid range hunting. And now I will try it.. Now that spring bear season is started here in so.oregon.. the bergers will continue to fly...
Bigngreen.. My gun is always cleaned after shooting. And It only has 175 down the pipe, so I hope Its not shot out yet?? .. If velocity is an issue with burgers, I can cope with slowing them down a few fps. What speed is your buddy shooting them? I have always thought that despensed energy kills.. but maybe not..
The Berger experiences are welcome..
And thanks for all the insight..
Jesterg
Bigngreen.. My gun is always cleaned after shooting. And It only has 175 down the pipe, so I hope Its not shot out yet?? .. If velocity is an issue with burgers, I can cope with slowing them down a few fps. What speed is your buddy shooting them? I have always thought that despensed energy kills.. but maybe not..
The Berger experiences are welcome..
And thanks for all the insight..
Jesterg
elkoholic72
Well-Known Member
If you end going with another bullet, I'll take the 400 you still have! That is the only bullet I shoot in 3 guns.... Never a problem.
