100yd and 600yd loads?

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by bajaaa, Sep 16, 2011.

  1. bajaaa

    bajaaa Well-Known Member

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    I've heard it said that a 100yd MOA load does not ALWAYS print MOA @ LR,
    i.e., @ 600/800/1000 yds...

    How many folk here find that to be true and how difficult was it for you to find a load that would print MOA at longer distances?

    Did you change the brand bullet first or weight or powder...just curious as I venture deeper into this game and start to handload again...:D

    I appreciate whatever info/details you can throw my way!!!
     
  2. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    If your rig is set up right and you use the bullets we talked about you won't have any problem with that.
     

  3. bajaaa

    bajaaa Well-Known Member

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    Sure, but I'm curious if folks here have run across this issue on occasion more often than not...Would they try another weight first or powder?...As every rifle is a different beast at times...LOL
     
  4. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    People do a lot of things out of frustration... .

    Notice the caveats... .

    IF the rifle is set up right and IF it's shooting good groups at 100.

    Technique then is the more likely culprit if suddenly the groups get wild further out IF you are using the kinds of bullets we talked about.

    I've seen guys pull all their hair out and try everything you can imagine in frustration with the root cause either being the rifle, the mounts, the scope or more often than not the limitations of the guy behind the gun being the culprit.

    Any error you make behind the gun is going to expand exponentially as you move further down range and more often than not if the problem is the shooter that's the last thing the shooter will accept.
     
  5. Greyfox

    Greyfox Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Wildrose, placing emphasis on bullet choice and technique. Technique should include wind and mirage management at LR.
     
  6. MHO

    MHO Well-Known Member

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    + 1 with Greyfox and wildrose.
     
  7. Boom

    Boom Well-Known Member

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    I had groups expand at longer distances mostly, I think, because of the shooter. Best advice I got was to really look at the nature of the group--is it still consistent? Yeah I know its not sub MOA but are the bullets still performing in a similar all be it a wider pattern. If so, perhaps a bullet or load change could tighten things up. It seems obvious now, but I was getting two or three shots that were accetable with other "flyers." The flyers I have renamed "shooters" as I don't think they had anything to do with the gun, ammo or optics. Trigger time has been the best "fix" for me.gun)
     
  8. bajaaa

    bajaaa Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad I asked the question here... because it satisfies my curiosity from several things I've heard on other forums contradicting this occurrence.

    I appreciate the replies as I'm learning a few new things that I've never had the need to look into before.

    I'll go purchase some bullets and start rolling and head out to the range...thanks to all for your input...

    You folks are great!!!... gun)
     
  9. bajaaa

    bajaaa Well-Known Member

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    Great advice WildRose!!!

    I will go into this game knowing I need to work on my technique and spend a lot of time sending lead downrange to perfect it!!!

    Many thanks! gun)
     
  10. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

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    I've heard two schools of thought on this dilemma. The first is that one hole groups that have bullets shoved into the lands tend to open up the farther you go. I have experienced this phenomenon once or twice. For what ever reason the groups got uglier the farther I went. But this could be the indication of poor shooting technique. However backing the bullet off the lands then allowed the group to tighten back up. It doesn't even have to be that much... maybe a couple thousandths.

    The second is that I have seen where my bullet has been seated deeper in the casing and producing good groups at long range as well as at 100. I believe I heard from a bench rest guy when I was at a Williamsport 1000yd match say that the deeper you seat a Berger the better they shoot. He stated a jammed bullet is not a good idea for long range work. He seated his to .80-1.00 from the lands. He was a top competitor. I generally try and keep my bullets a minimum of .020 off the lands. This usually results in finding a good load. On the flip side, there are competitive shooters that do jam their bullets. I really think it is load and barrel combinations that are the key difference.

    Tank
     
  11. Korhil78

    Korhil78 Well-Known Member

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    So far...I have not had a load that wouldn't shoot about the same from 100yds to 600 yds. I havnt shot any further than 600 so I couldn't tell you from there. I think that if the gun has been worked on the right way...i.e. bedded, floated barrel then it tends to be more of the shooter that is messing up from long distance.

    Bajaa...you can shoot lead down range all day and if you have a bad habit, all you will be doing is reinforcing that bad habit. If you want to break a habit in shooting, you need to slow things way down and do a lot of dry firing. If you flinch, look over your sights or slap the trigger, you will not fix any of that by just throwing lead down range over and over. It's called muscle memory and if you have the muscle memory to a bad habit then it is inbedded in your brain to do it everytime that you pull the trigger. Getting all of your technique right while dry firing really helps a lot. You have to dry fire a lot though and concentrate really hard on the things that you need to be concentrating on..i.e. breathing, trigger pull, focusing on the sights or reticle and let everything else just leave your mind.

    Another good thing to do is when you go to the range, have a buddy go with you. Have him take your gun and without you seeing, have him either load a round in the chamber or not load a round in the chamber, put it on safe and then set it on the ground in front of you (having him always pointing it in a safe direction down range). Then you get set and concentrate on your technique of shooting, if it is not loaded you will be able to see what you are doing wrong (because of the psychological issue of you not knowing if the gun is going to fire or not). You will notice if you are flinching, slapping the trigger etc. Also tell your buddy to watch you as you pull the trigger, he will also see things that you may be doing wrong as well. After a while of not putting a round in there, you will forget about if it is loaded or not and just rely on technique and you will find that you are shooting a lot better when he actually does put a round in.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that if you have a bad habit with shooting, it is not going to be fixed in one session at the range. It may take a few months of going out twice a week shooting using the technique that I told you above. It all depends on how long you have been reinforcing the bad habit while shooting. Just be patient and keep working at it. Don't let yourself get frustrated. If you find yourself getting frustrated, just stop, take a break and start back again when you have calmed yourself. That is the good thing about taking a friend, you do the same load or not load technique for him while you take a break. Both of you can learn from each others mistakes.

    So,
    #1 Dry fire...A LOT
    #2 Try the load or no load technique out that I told you..it works.
    #3 Be patient and don't expect immediate results.

    Shooting is a lot of technique but it is also VERY psychological. If you can get it in your mind that it doesnt matter if the gun is loaded or not and no matter what, you are going to be smooth on the trigger and not going to flinch when that gun goes off. It will help you improve on your shooting mentally and that will build your confidence.
     
  12. bajaaa

    bajaaa Well-Known Member

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    Tank,

    I appreciate the info...Right on!
     
  13. bajaaa

    bajaaa Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate you taking the time to share this...I'm a strong believer in everything you've said!

    My son and I spend a lot of time doing this over the past several years and it has helped us immeasurably!

    I will do as you say...gun)
     
  14. bman73

    bman73 Well-Known Member

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    As technique practice goes I have been doing a LOT of shooting with my .22 lately and have noticed a huge difference in my shooting on my bigger guns as a result of it. I have noticed that a little error in technique on a rimfire shows up huge at 200 yrds. Since I have been practicing with the .22 I have also noticed I am getting far better with reading the wind, a little 40 grn round really gets knocked around a lot by the time it gets to 200 yrds. The other big advantage to practicing with the rimfire is cost. 500 rounds a day is not uncommon for me now and only spending 30 bucks to do it is a pretty big bonus.