Michigan straight wall cartridge

[Medic7816]

Hello all,

Long time lurker, first time poster. So I live in southern Michigan, where new deer hunting rules have recently been implemented. The new rules are as follows:
.35 caliber or larger
Minimum coal of 1.16 with a maximum of 1.8 inches
Straight wall cartridges only.

My question to you is what weapons platform is going to get me the longest ethical range?

As for myself, I am a former Army marksman with significant long range shooting experience. Prior to this year I have been using a Remington 700P with black hills match 168 moly coat holding .5 moa in the states rifle zone. (Max kill on a deer so far is 124m. Sue me, I like the gun).

However, with my wife having a due date of two days after opening day, I am regulated to hunting in the new straight walled cartridge zone. My google-fu has returned no previous threads on this topic.

This and subsequent years will be hunting around my families farm. Corn fields with ranges out to 800m easily. My goal is 300m. So far I have decided this year to purchase a h&r .44 handi rifle because I already own a .44 handgun and all the required reloading equipment. It's cheap and will provide a decent 150m weapon at a rate much more preferable on shoulder and wallet than a 12 ga slug gun.

As far as I can tell, an AR platform rifle chambered in .450 bushmaster seems to be my best bet for a viable 300m white tail gun. It delivers my personal requirement of 800lbft at the target distance.

My question to you is, is there some magical wildcat round that I don't know about that will give me the distance that I am looking for? I would love to have have a 600-800m capable weapon, but I just don't see that as possible with the case length restriction.

Any input is valued.

 

[J E Custom]

Hello all,

Long time lurker, first time poster. So I live in southern Michigan, where new deer hunting rules have recently been implemented. The new rules are as follows:
.35 caliber or larger
Minimum coal of 1.16 with a maximum of 1.8 inches
Straight wall cartridges only.

My question to you is what weapons platform is going to get me the longest ethical range?

As for myself, I am a former Army marksman with significant long range shooting experience. Prior to this year I have been using a Remington 700P with black hills match 168 moly coat holding .5 moa in the states rifle zone. (Max kill on a deer so far is 124m. Sue me, I like the gun).

However, with my wife having a due date of two days after opening day, I am regulated to hunting in the new straight walled cartridge zone. My google-fu has returned no previous threads on this topic.

This and subsequent years will be hunting around my families farm. Corn fields with ranges out to 800m easily. My goal is 300m. So far I have decided this year to purchase a h&r .44 handi rifle because I already own a .44 handgun and all the required reloading equipment. It's cheap and will provide a decent 150m weapon at a rate much more preferable on shoulder and wallet than a 12 ga slug gun.

As far as I can tell, an AR platform rifle chambered in .450 bushmaster seems to be my best bet for a viable 300m white tail gun. It delivers my personal requirement of 800lbft at the target distance.

My question to you is, is there some magical wildcat round that I don't know about that will give me the distance that I am looking for? I would love to have have a 600-800m capable weapon, but I just don't see that as possible with the case length restriction.

Any input is valued.

Looks like Michigan want's to increase there deer herd.

That has to be one of the strangest regulations I have ever heard of.

I can see a minimum caliber or cartridge, but a maximum length in a straight wall case?

Sounds like more tree huggers to me.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Medic7816]

Well, this is a previous shotgun only zone that is just allowing brass cases for the first time. Population density is being used as a reason for the strict regs.

 

[375ultramag]

I know it's not a straight walled cartridge but before I bought a 44 mag single shot rifle I would look into an Ultimate Muzzleloader, they can shoot 200 grains of Triple 7 powder and are accurate to 400 yards or more. Unless they changed the laws they are legal in the Michigan shotgun zone. But that's just my opinion.

 

[duckaholic25]

35 wheelen is going to be your best bet.

 

[Medic7816]

.35 whelen is out, it's not a straight wall cartridge and the case length is far too long.

I look at the ultimate muzzleloader, which is now being marketed by Remington. Seems to have a 200 fps advantage over .450 bushmaster with the same bullet. Which makes me wonder if the ml is making that velocity with a 26 inch barrel and the bushmaster out of a 20 inch, could I build an AR with a 24 inch barrel and produce similar velocity?

The AR platform appeals to me due to ease of carrying in the woods, modular ability, and reduced recoil. The semi-auto is nice, but a rather moot point in long range deer hunting.

I have long been a Remington fan, but I have not been impressed with their recent build quality and am hesitant to spend $1,300 on a first run muzzleloader.

 

[J E Custom]

.35 whelen is out, it's not a straight wall cartridge and the case length is far too long.

I look at the ultimate muzzleloader, which is now being marketed by Remington. Seems to have a 200 fps advantage over .450 bushmaster with the same bullet. Which makes me wonder if the ml is making that velocity with a 26 inch barrel and the bushmaster out of a 20 inch, could I build an AR with a 24 inch barrel and produce similar velocity?

The AR platform appeals to me due to ease of carrying in the woods, modular ability, and reduced recoil. The semi-auto is nice, but a rather moot point in long range deer hunting.

I have long been a Remington fan, but I have not been impressed with their recent build quality and am hesitant to spend $1,300 on a first run muzzleloader.

I would recommend the 450 bushmaster for many reasons. More than one shot, less hassle, no cleaning if not fired, ETC.

The velocity is not that much of an issue with the energy developed with the factory loaded rounds
in a 20" barrel.

The 450 bushmaster uses pistol bullets (.452 ) and there are lots of choices of jacketed bullets
from 200 grain to 325 grain, and cast bullets up to 375 grain.

I have one with a 24'' barrel on it and my velocity is 2400 ft/sec Avg and is devastating on large hogs.

An AR in 450 would be hard to beat In My Opinion.

J E CUSTOM

 

[MudRunner2005]

Kind of a long-winded video, but his muzzleloaders are very impressive.

[ame=http://youtu.be/NgFz3cqSpUg]Hankins Custom Rifles, Worlds Most Accurate Muzzlelaoder - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Kiwi Greg]

I have built a few 450 Bushmaster bolt actions rifles on Rem 7 & 700, T3 Tikka & Kimber 84M

An extremely impressive round, heaps of power.

Hornady 250 FTX ammo is very accurate in them.

Reloading I can easily get 2300 FPS with the 250 FTX out of a 12" barrel.

I built them mainly with the view of sub-sonic use.

Being .452 there is a quite a few cheap pistol projectiles available.



More info here.

450Bushmaster.net • Index page

450 Bushmaster

Kimber 450 Bushmaster

 

[Dr. Vette]

Hello all,

Long time lurker, first time poster. So I live in southern Michigan, where new deer hunting rules have recently been implemented. The new rules are as follows:
.35 caliber or larger
Minimum coal of 1.16 with a maximum of 1.8 inches
Straight wall cartridges only.

Any input is valued.

I had the same question, and note that Ohio has implemented very similar rules as has Indiana. It's easy to find a posted list of the calibers that qualify for their former shotgun-only hunting, and you can screen calibers this way rather than spending hours looking at SAAMI specs.

I wish MI had just posted a list stating "calibers that would qualify include but are not limited to..." as it would have made it a lot easier.

Honestly, I suspect I'll stick to my 44 Mag revolver, 12 ga shotgun and 50 cal inline muzzleloader. I wish my 35 Rem qualified but no such luck.

 

[J E Custom]

I have built a few 450 Bushmaster bolt actions rifles on Rem 7 & 700, T3 Tikka & Kimber 84M

An extremely impressive round, heaps of power.

Hornady 250 FTX ammo is very accurate in them.

Reloading I can easily get 2300 FPS with the 250 FTX out of a 12" barrel.

I built them mainly with the view of sub-sonic use.

Being .452 there is a quite a few cheap pistol projectiles available.



More info here.

450Bushmaster.net • Index page

450 Bushmaster

Kimber 450 Bushmaster

Very Nice work and a novel Idea to make the 450 subsonic hammer.

And yes, the bolt actions can be loaded harder. At first the bushmaster factory ammo would do
2400 ft/sec in my AR but they were hard on the buffer and they reduced the velocity to 2200
ft/sec . I have built a 460 smith on a bolt action rifle and it is a boomer.

If I built a sub sonic It would be a 450 bushmaster for sure. I sometimes hunt with a 454 pistol but the Bushmaster is noticeably better on deer and hogs especially at 100+yards.

The other nice thing about the 450 is if you are faced with a charging pig the AR with 10 rounds
is comforting to say the least.

How well does the subsonic version work on deer and hogs ?

J E CUSTOM

 

[SidecarFlip]

Me, I'll stick with my CVA 50 inline for Michigan but I'll use my very accurate Henry Lever gun Big Boy, Leupy scoped in 44 Magnum for Ohio.

Henry's for the most part are very accurate rifles shooting straight walled brass.

My go to deer load is 21.5 grains of Lil Gun with Federal primers behind a Sierra 240 grain Sportsmaster indexed hollow point. It's full house so be sure to use virgin brass or you'll crack cases. (I know, been there, done that). I tend to use Starline Brass exclusively. You can use Unique but use their maximum load as a starting load instead. I loaded a 50 box with Unique and had to pull them and add propellant after I found that the pills weren't 'making the trip' at 100 yards.

It's reported that Lil Gun in a revolver tends to erode the forcing cone whereas Unique don't. I haven't seen any issue with my 27/44 S&W 44 mag revolver so far.

The Sierra's are hard to come by lately but I keep numerous 100 boxes on the shelf.

Candidly I had no idea Michigan adopted the Ohio straight wall pistol in a rifle cartridge and I'm on the DNR update list.

Typically, the Henry will shoot a .5 inch group at 100 yards. Deer here aren't long shots anyway, maybe 150-200 yards maximum.

I really like the Sportsmasters in the 240 flavor. Terrific expansion so an off hit still drops them, right now.

 

[Kiwi Greg]

Very Nice work and a novel Idea to make the 450 subsonic hammer.

And yes, the bolt actions can be loaded harder. At first the bushmaster factory ammo would do
2400 ft/sec in my AR but they were hard on the buffer and they reduced the velocity to 2200
ft/sec . I have built a 460 smith on a bolt action rifle and it is a boomer.

If I built a sub sonic It would be a 450 bushmaster for sure. I sometimes hunt with a 454 pistol but the Bushmaster is noticeably better on deer and hogs especially at 100+yards.

The other nice thing about the 450 is if you are faced with a charging pig the AR with 10 rounds
is comforting to say the least.

How well does the subsonic version work on deer and hogs ?

J E CUSTOM

Thanks.

With sub-sonics shot placement, range & appropriate projectile selection is important.

That's were the .452 shines with pistol projectiles, the 225 FTX work well & the copper CEB & Lehigh projectiles look great.





I wanted to go 500 S&W but barrel choice, projectile & case cost & availability put me off.

 

[snox801]

As far as I read the laws the 450 Bushmaster is not legal. In the law itself there is also a maximum brass length which the 450 does not fit. That being said have heard lots of folks getting them for use this year. I have yet to hear back on my request to the dnr on whether they will be legal. The draft I read that stated brass length was just that a draft. I would check first as a word of caution. Or as soon as I hear I will post back.