WillHunt
Member
Surprised I didn't draw area 48 type 2 with <2 PP. Looks like the non-res quota for that hunt dropped from 62 to 12? Oh well.
WY antelope draw out
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Outlaw6.0
Well-Known Member
That's just plain ole bad luck there, sorry brother. It never ceases to amaze me, that even as a resident I have to apply for a buck tag.... on my own land.... for a freaking speed goat?! That's akin to living in Alaska & having to apply for a permit to gather ice.... Oh well, play the game I guess.
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Topgun 30-06
Well-Known Member
***I'm pretty much up on how WY does their draws, stats, odds, etc. What you stated got me to wondering, so I went in and looked up the stats for 48-2. Total tags issued in 2013 was 200 and in 2014 they dropped it to 150. The resident stats show they issued 160 tags in 2013 and 120 in 2014, which would be about right based on how Wyoming divides the tags up between residents and NRs. Then in looking at the stats for the NR Regular PP draw you were in shows 14 tags issued to 21 applicants with 3PPs for a 66.67% chance to draw. The number of tags issued in that draw in 2013 shows 62, as you stated, and I have no idea how they could have issued that many tags unless there was an input error because they can't legally issue more tags than the total in the Final Regulation that's approved by the Commission. 160 issued tags to residents only leaves a total of 40 for NRs in all 4 of the NR draws and not 62 in just the one draw alone like it shows, so something was screwed up in the draw or in that report they posted! Anyway, it looks like the 2014 stats are accurate and with the 25% cut in tags it took 3PPs in your draw to get one of the available tags. There were many draws like that this year because of some pretty drastic tag cuts the G&F made and a lot of guys that thought they had enough PPs based on previous years draws got a big surprise this year. I would suggest that you might want to call the G&F Licensing Section and ask about the stats for 2013 that I mentioned and see what kind of a excuse they come up. The draw odds definitely show that too many tags were issued compared to the number of tags that could legally be issued based on the Final Regulation that can't be exceeded!
cummin_un_glued
Well-Known Member
neither me nor my dad drew the doe tags we put in for either :-(
WillHunt
Member
Topgun,
I was hoping someone else would take a closer look and see what I was seeing. I'm just trying to do the math and make the individual hunt type quotas add up to the overall 48 type 2 quota, and I can't do it for 2013.
For 2014, the published quota for 48 Type 2 is 150. If you add up the following quotas: Nonres reg random (4) + Nonres special random (3) + Res random (120) + Nonres PP reg (14) + Nonres PP special (9), you get 150! Great, it adds up.
Look at 2013 and do the same thing. The published quota was 200 for all 48 Type 2 hunts. Let's add them up individually: Nonres reg random (20) + Nonres special random (12) + Res random (160) + Nonres PP reg (62) + Nonres PP special (37), you get 291! uh oh.
The other day I somehow thought I'd found a quota figure of 23 for Nonres PP reg in 2013 instead of the 62, but I can't find that again. That would bring the total for 2013 down from 291 to 252, which still isn't 200, but I was thinking that if 23 was the correct number, maybe just the overall quota had been mis-reported and it had been 250 and not 200; in which case, it would represent a 40% quota cut. Either way, something seems mis-reported or messed up.
I was hoping someone else would take a closer look and see what I was seeing. I'm just trying to do the math and make the individual hunt type quotas add up to the overall 48 type 2 quota, and I can't do it for 2013.
For 2014, the published quota for 48 Type 2 is 150. If you add up the following quotas: Nonres reg random (4) + Nonres special random (3) + Res random (120) + Nonres PP reg (14) + Nonres PP special (9), you get 150! Great, it adds up.
Look at 2013 and do the same thing. The published quota was 200 for all 48 Type 2 hunts. Let's add them up individually: Nonres reg random (20) + Nonres special random (12) + Res random (160) + Nonres PP reg (62) + Nonres PP special (37), you get 291! uh oh.
The other day I somehow thought I'd found a quota figure of 23 for Nonres PP reg in 2013 instead of the 62, but I can't find that again. That would bring the total for 2013 down from 291 to 252, which still isn't 200, but I was thinking that if 23 was the correct number, maybe just the overall quota had been mis-reported and it had been 250 and not 200; in which case, it would represent a 40% quota cut. Either way, something seems mis-reported or messed up.
Topgun 30-06
Well-Known Member
FYI you can't really come up with exact numbers by looking at the odds list and doing simple addition like you did because those numbers are what's left after they take the landowner tags off the unit allocation. Residents get 80% of the total tags allocated in a unit and NRs get the remaining 20%, so you can get those two exact figures by taking those percentages times the total tags showing in the Final Regulation. Doing that for 2013 and 2014 for 200 tags and 150 tags, respectively, gives exactly wat was up on the stats list for residents (160 and 120). That would leave NRs with 40 tags for 2013 and 30 tags for 2014 BEFORE any landowner tags are taken off the top. That is a big problem with the way the Wyoming landowner tag system is set up and the way the draw odds are printed on the G&F website. There is no limit to landowner tags, so if there are a lot of landowners that by statute have at least 160 deeded acres with 2000 animal use days for that species in a calendar year in a unit and they apply for a tag the statute automatically gives them one buck/bull tag and one antlerless tag if they apply for it. This can lead to serious problems if a unit has a low number of tags and a large number of landowners who qualify for them because theoretically they can take every tag in that unit before the draws are even done. That's exactly what happened in deer unit 87-1 this year. There were 25 total tags allocated for the unit and the odds list showed that only 9 tags were issued in the resident draw and none in any of the NR draws because 16 of the 25 tags were removed for landowners BEFORE the draws were even held (5 on the NR side, which was their 20% cut of the 25, and 11 from the residents, which was a big chunk of the 20 allocated to them). Thus, NRs that put in for that unit wasted an application fee and a chance at that unit tag if they had it for any of their 3 choices. It sucks, but it is what it is unless the system is changed and that's doubtful when NRs don't have a vote or say in the matter. Anyway, what I mentioned in my other post regarding your 2013 question remains the same because there is no way they could legally or correctly give out 62 tags in that one draw when there were only 40 tags available to begin with for NRs even before landowner tags may have been pulled from that total. Somebody in the G&F Draw Section either screwed up when they input the totals for the computer to draw the tags or when the draws odds list was printed and not checked. My guess after the debacle in elk unit 7-1 where they initially issued 1200 too many bull tags in the resident draw and had to change those 1200 showing successful to the big UN would make me believe that they don't/didn't have a step in place to insure that total tag allocations were input correctly into the computer. I'd bet after this 7-1 disaster that it won't happen again or someone should lose their job!
WillHunt
Member
I spoke with someone from WGFD yesterday, and they think there may be an error in some of the pre-2014 reporting for this area and perhaps another. They are looking into it. I sort of understand what you're saying about the landowner tags, but not completely. It all adds up for 2014 perfectly. But regardless, like you said, it's hard to see how they issued 80% resident and 20% nonresident in 2013, and I've looked back at 2012 and 2011 and see the same issue. Basically, if you used the historical data to make the decision to apply for 48 type 2, and you had less than 3 PP, you got an unpleasant surprise, because the data you were using to do your homework, appears to have been in error. That having been said, the WGFD is an exceptional agency, and I'm sure they will get the thing right, or will explain that I don't know what I'm looking at.
