Kind of a multi part question. I have a custom 7 rem mag based on a weatherby action. It has a McMillan sporter stock and a hart #5 barrel. It was designed to be a longrange hunter. It also sports a vx3 long range 30 mm scope. Everything is cool as far as bedding and barrel floating as far as I can tell. My problem is that I can't seem to get it to shoot as accurately as I'd like. My gunsmith originally worked up a load using nosler brass, 160 gr accubonds, reloader 22 and 210m primers. It shoots that recipe pretty well but I seemed to notice velocity spreads which I kind of equate to the reloader 22 and the 210m primers. I have also tried to get itto shoot the new 168 berger classic hunter over a number of powders using primarily 215m primers. I should have also mentioned the twist rate is 1:9 as far as I remember. The bergers just haven't seemed to wanna shoot. My question is, even though I'm not seeing anything that might lead me to believe that the bullets are not stabilizing, is there a possibility that those bullets are not stabilizing properly afterall? The brass has been loaded somewhere around 5 times. I'm not seeing any reason to think the brass has gone south and I'm pretty anal about brass prep. Have you guys seen brass that has been loaded a handful of times affect accuracy even though it has been prepped well? Sorry for the rookie questions but I'm about at my wits end, considering the time and effort that has been put into this gun. Any ideas or bullet suggestions would be appreciated. I have even considered trying lighter bullets and giving up the ballistic coefficient but that would seem to be contradictory to the long range purpose.
7mm accuracy problems
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rick523
Well-Known Member
First let me state this is JMO.
1. I'm guessing your brass could use some anneling, then trim all to length, camfer inside and out.
2. Make sure everything on the scope is properly torqued.
3. Your rifle should stabilize both the 168's and the 180's, my 7RM shoots the 168's very well. That said I had it specifically built for that bullet it is a 1-10
You might try H1000 I started with R22 after talking with Bryan Litz he suggested H1000 and I've never looked back. Try some different primers, 215m, CCI250, which is what I use I started with the 215's but was always getting one flyer on a suggestion from this sight I tried the 250's problem solved.
4. The bergers like to be seated close to the lands, mine are .001 off, experiment with different seating depths. From a jam out in .010 on out till you find something that is getting close to what you want then tweek from there in.001 increments.
These are the things that worked for me all info gathered here,I am not the most knowledgeable guy on this sight by any means, and still rely on this site and the shooters here for help now and again.
Shot this group last Saturday.
Normally my groups measure around .25 I was just having a very good day. Good luck let us know what you come up with. And yes that is 3 shots,
I had a witness who is a member on this forum.
Rick
1. I'm guessing your brass could use some anneling, then trim all to length, camfer inside and out.
2. Make sure everything on the scope is properly torqued.
3. Your rifle should stabilize both the 168's and the 180's, my 7RM shoots the 168's very well. That said I had it specifically built for that bullet it is a 1-10
You might try H1000 I started with R22 after talking with Bryan Litz he suggested H1000 and I've never looked back. Try some different primers, 215m, CCI250, which is what I use I started with the 215's but was always getting one flyer on a suggestion from this sight I tried the 250's problem solved.
4. The bergers like to be seated close to the lands, mine are .001 off, experiment with different seating depths. From a jam out in .010 on out till you find something that is getting close to what you want then tweek from there in.001 increments.
These are the things that worked for me all info gathered here,I am not the most knowledgeable guy on this sight by any means, and still rely on this site and the shooters here for help now and again.
Shot this group last Saturday.
Normally my groups measure around .25 I was just having a very good day. Good luck let us know what you come up with. And yes that is 3 shots, I had a witness who is a member on this forum.Rick
Wow, I've never seen a group like that! Thanks for the suggestions. I've been wanting to try h1000 but have not been able to find it. At this point I'm really leaning towards a different primer and powder combination and seat em closer. So far I haven't seated em closer than .020" since they're the berger classic hunter and are supposed to be much less sensitive to seating depth. I was tempted to try the 140s just to give em a try but really don't want to drop In bc that far.
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
Bergers do generally like to be seated closer to the lands but not in every rifle.
At the top of the reloading Forum you will find a sticky that Berger provided to assist in getting the best accuracy out of your Bergers. Check it out.
At the top of the reloading Forum you will find a sticky that Berger provided to assist in getting the best accuracy out of your Bergers. Check it out.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Maybe I missed it but what size groups are you getting out of your rifle?
How did the rifle shoot before it was rebarreled and restocked?
I have seen on several occasions where a Wby receiver was the main issue, if it was the MkV receiver that is. Not saying that's the problem but in my experience, there are enough MkV receivers out there that simply will not respond to anything you do if your looking for sub moa grouping. I know I will **** off a lot of Wby lovers out there but this is not opinion, about 10% are not worth the time to do anything with if you want a rifle that shoots less then 1 moa.
How did the rifle shoot before it was rebarreled and restocked?
I have seen on several occasions where a Wby receiver was the main issue, if it was the MkV receiver that is. Not saying that's the problem but in my experience, there are enough MkV receivers out there that simply will not respond to anything you do if your looking for sub moa grouping. I know I will **** off a lot of Wby lovers out there but this is not opinion, about 10% are not worth the time to do anything with if you want a rifle that shoots less then 1 moa.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
First let me state this is JMO.
1. I'm guessing your brass could use some anneling, then trim all to length, camfer inside and out.
2. Make sure everything on the scope is properly torqued.
3. Your rifle should stabilize both the 168's and the 180's, my 7RM shoots the 168's very well. That said I had it specifically built for that bullet it is a 1-10
You might try H1000 I started with R22 after talking with Bryan Litz he suggested H1000 and I've never looked back. Try some different primers, 215m, CCI250, which is what I use I started with the 215's but was always getting one flyer on a suggestion from this sight I tried the 250's problem solved.
4. The bergers like to be seated close to the lands, mine are .001 off, experiment with different seating depths. From a jam out in .010 on out till you find something that is getting close to what you want then tweek from there in.001 increments.
These are the things that worked for me all info gathered here,I am not the most knowledgeable guy on this sight by any means, and still rely on this site and the shooters here for help now and again.
Shot this group last Saturday.View attachment 25129 Normally my groups measure around .25 I was just having a very good day. Good luck let us know what you come up with. And yes that is 3 shots,
Rick
Looks like your first shot made it to the target and the other two came apart in flight!!!
Just kidding, once in a lifetime group!!rick523
Well-Known Member
Looks like your first shot made it to the target and the other two came apart in flight!!!
Thanks,Kirby yeah after the second shot my buddy said **** you missed the whole back stop (4'x4') after the third shot I thought so myself Like I said I was having a good day the pic I wish I took was a 3 shot group on an 8" steel plate at 905yds. it measured just hair over 1.5" but like the dummy I am I let my buddy go ahead and shoot that opened the 6 shots up to about 5". Still not bad for 2 different shooters and two different rifles.MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
That's the first I heard that Kirby. I always thought they were a good action. Don't particularly like their 6 and 9 lugs bolts, but I always thought they were a descent action to work with.
Any particular issue with the action?
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
That was one heck of a group! The bad thing about it is everything from now on will be a disappointment
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
I do not know many top end smiths that are accuracy minded that will offer a 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee with the Wby MkV.
In talking with Shawn Carlock many years ago while we were hunting together, he had the same experience with them and does his best not to build on them. I DO NOT build on them any more.
Everyone thinks that they are amazing receivers, I am not a fan. There is no way to truly accurize one of these receivers because of the multi plane lug design. You can lap them in but its still not uncommon to see a floating lug.
Many say they are the strongest receivers out there, not really, a properly trued Rem 700 with full 100% bolt lug contact is at least as strong. A lot of what is throught about the Wby is based on opinion and myth.
Not saying they are a BAD receiver but there are much better designs out there. Plus, its very difficult to convert a Wby MkV receiver to a different case size, simply because no one at Wby believes anyone other then them are qualified to touch one of their rifles so getting parts is very difficult.
Some of the MkV rifles shoot very well, do not get me wrong, again, only around 10% simply will not hold less then 1 moa no matter what you do and as a custom rifle builder talking to someone that will be spending potentially thousands of dollars on a custom rifle, I will not recommend using one just because of that 10% that will not respond well to rebuilding.
It may only be 10% but when the customer has problems with his rifle, its the builder that is in trouble, not Wby and its hard to explain about the 10% after the fact, as such, I do not let myself get into that situation.
There are some builders that love them, some even specialize in them. IF you want a Wby built, I would find one of those guys.
In talking with Shawn Carlock many years ago while we were hunting together, he had the same experience with them and does his best not to build on them. I DO NOT build on them any more.
Everyone thinks that they are amazing receivers, I am not a fan. There is no way to truly accurize one of these receivers because of the multi plane lug design. You can lap them in but its still not uncommon to see a floating lug.
Many say they are the strongest receivers out there, not really, a properly trued Rem 700 with full 100% bolt lug contact is at least as strong. A lot of what is throught about the Wby is based on opinion and myth.
Not saying they are a BAD receiver but there are much better designs out there. Plus, its very difficult to convert a Wby MkV receiver to a different case size, simply because no one at Wby believes anyone other then them are qualified to touch one of their rifles so getting parts is very difficult.
Some of the MkV rifles shoot very well, do not get me wrong, again, only around 10% simply will not hold less then 1 moa no matter what you do and as a custom rifle builder talking to someone that will be spending potentially thousands of dollars on a custom rifle, I will not recommend using one just because of that 10% that will not respond well to rebuilding.
It may only be 10% but when the customer has problems with his rifle, its the builder that is in trouble, not Wby and its hard to explain about the 10% after the fact, as such, I do not let myself get into that situation.
There are some builders that love them, some even specialize in them. IF you want a Wby built, I would find one of those guys.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
that was one heck of a group! The bad thing about it is everything from now on will be a disappointment
+1 :d
rick523
Well-Known Member
My hunting partner must have one in the 10% group his 257 sucks, on a good day it might shoot a 1.5" group and it will not shoot bergers at all. The best it does with them is about 2".
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
When I started out in this business I got pretty ego bound and through I could make any rifle on the planet shoot into 1/2 moa groups after rebuilding. At that time I had built a couple hundred Rem 700s with only a couple problems which were both barrel related.
I had even rebuilt several Wby MkV receivers and a lot of Savage M110s. All had shot lights out.
Then I had a customer bring in a Wby MkV in 300 Wby that was shooting about 2 moa with anything he put through it. In my relatively inexperienced state of mind, I agreed to do the build and guaranteed a 1/2 moa rifle at the end of the adventure.
I can tell you After rebuilding that rifle with a heavy #7 Lilja, 28" SS, 1-10 twist barrel, McMillan A-5 tactical stock, Holland QD muzzle brake and even did what I could to accurize the receiver which was recut the receiver threads perfect to the axis of the receiver and truing the bolt face on the bolt and lapping the bolt lugs into as near 100% contact as possible.
Still, the best group I got out of the rifle was 1 1/3 moa and I will admit, I put at least $300 in componants through that rifle testing all the best accuracy bullets out there, a half dozen powders and every magnum and standard primer made in the US. Not only that, I tried every brand of brass I could find. NOTHING made a difference. Well I should not say that, some groups were worse. Twist rate was verified, bore was perfectly dimensioned, everything was perfect on the rifle from a mechanical stand point. Played with receiver torque levels, nothing made any difference.
In that case, I gave the customer some cash back simply because I could not get his rifle to shoot to my standards.
In my time doing this, I have seen 5 Wby MkVs that behaved this same way and around 40 that shot just fine to my accuracy standards. For that reason I will not offer an accuracy guarantee on them.
I had even rebuilt several Wby MkV receivers and a lot of Savage M110s. All had shot lights out.
Then I had a customer bring in a Wby MkV in 300 Wby that was shooting about 2 moa with anything he put through it. In my relatively inexperienced state of mind, I agreed to do the build and guaranteed a 1/2 moa rifle at the end of the adventure.
I can tell you After rebuilding that rifle with a heavy #7 Lilja, 28" SS, 1-10 twist barrel, McMillan A-5 tactical stock, Holland QD muzzle brake and even did what I could to accurize the receiver which was recut the receiver threads perfect to the axis of the receiver and truing the bolt face on the bolt and lapping the bolt lugs into as near 100% contact as possible.
Still, the best group I got out of the rifle was 1 1/3 moa and I will admit, I put at least $300 in componants through that rifle testing all the best accuracy bullets out there, a half dozen powders and every magnum and standard primer made in the US. Not only that, I tried every brand of brass I could find. NOTHING made a difference. Well I should not say that, some groups were worse. Twist rate was verified, bore was perfectly dimensioned, everything was perfect on the rifle from a mechanical stand point. Played with receiver torque levels, nothing made any difference.
In that case, I gave the customer some cash back simply because I could not get his rifle to shoot to my standards.
In my time doing this, I have seen 5 Wby MkVs that behaved this same way and around 40 that shot just fine to my accuracy standards. For that reason I will not offer an accuracy guarantee on them.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
One thing you may want to check is that the belt on the case is not contacting the chamber. I have found that Nosler brass can have pretty thick belts. The variation in belt thickness from brand to brand and even lot to lot is hard to believe at times and it can cause serious accuracy problems if the belt is contacting the chamber in any way. Better to have the chamber a bit looser then touching the belt.
Sometimes it does not even feel like its touching but it is, smoking the belt and chambering usually will show contact.
It is not uncommon to have the chamber set to tight for a belted magnum. One reason I do not care for them, you CAN NOT set the chamber to zero headspace just because of the variation in headspace between brands and lots of belted magnum brass.
Maybe something to check, if its contacting the chamber, you WILL get accuracy problems.
Sometimes it does not even feel like its touching but it is, smoking the belt and chambering usually will show contact.
It is not uncommon to have the chamber set to tight for a belted magnum. One reason I do not care for them, you CAN NOT set the chamber to zero headspace just because of the variation in headspace between brands and lots of belted magnum brass.
Maybe something to check, if its contacting the chamber, you WILL get accuracy problems.
