Vortex PST 6-24x50 EBR-1 MOA -- FFP vs SFP substensions?

[farout]

Looking at get a 6-24x50 EBR-1 MOA. Looking at the Vortex user manuals for the FFP and SFP models, it appears that the SFP model has 1 MOA substensions while the FFP model only has 2 MOA substenions.

True? Or do they have old dated manuals on their website or something?

I understand the differences between FFP and SFP, but if the FFP only has 2 MOA substensions, I think I would prefer the SFP.

 

[Thefieldster]

Hey I recently bought same scope in 2nd focal plane. The reason I did this is because of the reticle. At 24x The reticle is in 1 moa subtentions. At 12x it is 2 Moa and 8x it is 3 moa and 6x its 4 moa. Really if you can do your 1,2,3 and 4 times tables there is no point in haveing a first focal plane. Really i could see the point in war (high stress) situations where the 3 seconds count but hunting deer and target shooting its not a problem.

Also I dont like the first focal plane because when you zoom in to 24x your crosshairs are huge. When your shooting at a little dot on a piece of paper that matters.

For an extra 200 I think I will learn my 4 times tables.

 

[farout]

Thanks Fieldster.

I was getting ready to get a FFP until I noticed that they were only 2 MOA. I already have a 2 MOA scope and was wanting something with more granularity. Seems Vortex is a little vague on that only 2 MOA bit. Sure it is cool to have accurate marks throughout magnification range, but you're giving up 50% granularity on ranging/holdover to have it.

Good point, could just dial down to 12x and have 2 MOA, if you need more FOV or lower light. Maybe this is why SFP is actually harder to find than a FFP...

Just ordered the only SFP I could find online.

 

[joseph]

Here we go again.

With the Vortex 6-24x50mm PST FFP MOA scope the reticule at 6x is very fine and as you increase the power the reticule gets larger all the way up to 24x. While the reticule is getting "THICKER" your TARGET ALSO GETS THICKER BY THE SAME AMOUNT as the RETICULE. ( AS AN EXAMPLE ) If you are sighting at a prairie dog at 100 yds at 6x the reticulate is about the same as the prairie dogs eye. If you increase the power to 24x the reticule becomes 24 times as thick AND so does the prairie dogs EYE. You don't realize that you still are covering only the eye at 6x and at 24x.

I think that shooters that get used to shooting with the FFP usually like it better then the SFP scopes. The SFP reticule is slightly thinner then the FFP.

If I can shoot three 5 shot groups in competition at 1,000 yards with my PST 6-24x50mm MOA scope set at 24 power that measured 11+1/4" and 8+1/8" and 10+3/16" I'd say I can hold the reticule pretty accurate. I have also shot a 3+1/4" three shot group at the same target to find where I was hitting to adjust the scope so my groups would be centered in the target. This was done with my hunting rifle I had built for antelopes in Wyoming. gun)- - - - - - - - - - - -

No matter what you use you need to have confidence in your equipment.

joseph

PS: All 15 shots plus the 3 sighters would have hit the boiler room of an antelope.

 

[westcliffe01]

I would agree that for shooting paper, no-one needs a FFP scope. But I find it remarkable that obscuring 1.8-2" of the target at 1000 yards is considered a problem, or 0.18"-0.2" at 100 yards... Perhaps if you want to join the 1 mile prairie dog club, you need something finer. But any groundhog, coyote, deer, elk, bear or whatever one might be hunting can be seen and targeted perfectly fine with a reticle that is 0.18min wide at the kind of ranges most of us will shoot at. Perhaps your group size is better than 2" at 1000 yards, then I could see how this would be a limiting factor...

Also I dont like the first focal plane because when you zoom in to 24x your crosshairs are huge. When your shooting at a little dot on a piece of paper that matters.

 

[farout]

Thanks for the replys.

My main question was not about reticle thickness but MOA substentions. The SFP has 1 MOA subs while the FFP seems to have only 2 MOA subs. And since I already have a 2 MOA substension scope, I was wanting one with more granularity for ranging. In the end it is just additional marks on the reticle to help me gauge things.

I am kind of OK with the thicker reticle as it is a hunting rifle.

Good 1000 yard groups there, Joseph. Says something for the scope (and shooter too). I'm still working to get there...

 

[Broz]

Go find a 6x24 PST in FFP. Turn it down and just try to use the reticle for anything other than a center hold. Start cranking up the power until you feel you could actually see the reticles sub-tensions well enough to use them to measure or hold on anything. You will see the problem there for use of the reticle below 10 or 12 X. I have used both and stand by my preference for SFP scopes, at any distance or type of shooting I do.

Jeff

 

[joseph]

Go find a 6x24 PST in FFP. Turn it down and just try to use the reticle for anything other than a center hold. Start cranking up the power until you feel you could actually see the reticles sub-tensions well enough to use them to measure or hold on anything. You will see the problem there for use of the reticle below 10 or 12 X. I have used both and stand by my preference for SFP scopes, at any distance or type of shooting I do.

Jeff

You are correct Broz as usual. I use a custom turret and hold on center after finding the yardage with my laser rangefinder and then hold for the wind and fire. I guess I am spoiled.

I never could range accurately with any kind of reticule much past 600 yds. That is why I got the custom turret for hunting.

joseph

PS: Here is the first time I shot at a target to test my custom turret. I made my zero at 200 yds. then dialed the turret to 4 for 400 yds. and shot 3 times to see if I was on the paper.

 

[Broz]

Joseph, for what you just posted it sounds to me like you would be just as happy or happier with a SFP scope. As you stated, you are not really using the reticle anyway.

Jeff

 

[joseph]

I have had a bunch of SFP scopes that I have been using for around 50 years now, but I really like the novelty of this PST which is my first and only FFP scope I have ever had. I tried a 8-32x50mm with a extra fine reticule with an 1/8" dot at 1,000 yards and didn't shoot as well with it at the next shoot. On the way home from that 1,000 yd. shoot I ended up in a helicopter and flew 60 miles to a hospital. It proved to me that there is a God. The other guy didn't get my spine, but got almost every bone on my left side. Anyway I probably won't be shooting any more long range anymore. I'm hoping to go back to Wyoming next year if I can get a special permit that will allow me to park along the roads and get out to shoot. It is hard for me to walk more then 50 yds. since my mishap. Besides I just turned 68 and am getting to old for this sport.

joseph

PS: I'm thinking about getting a toy hauler like this to put my ATV on when I go to Wyoming. It's easy to pull with my Tacoma and I can park it almost anywhere.

 

[Broz]

Sorry to hear of your injuries Joseph, I hope you heal up well.

Jeff

 

[joseph]

Thanks Bros. It'l be 2 years this August. Sorry to highjack the thread. I ended up putting the PST on my Browning BAR 30-06 which shoots dead on with the same custom turret out to 400 yds. The turret is adjusted differently though.

joseph

 

[farout]

PS: I'm thinking about getting a toy hauler like this to put my ATV on when I go to Wyoming. It's easy to pull with my Tacoma and I can park it almost anywhere.

Joseph, no problem with the thread hijack. I am now more interested in that camper than a PST scope now anyway! (Done ordered the PST with SFP, so not much more to discuss on that right now anyway). I'm in Oregon and the wife and I have been contemplating a Wyoming antelope hunt. That sure looks like a easy rig to pull across country.

Killed my first, and probably once in a lifetime, Oregon antelope a couple years ago. Took me 15 years to draw the tag. Now I'm addicted to antelope hunting and live in a state with limited opportunity. So Wyoming is calling us now. That is a great camper for a long range haul. I will have to look them up.

I too am sorry to hear about your accident. Health and physical ability to reach the game we love to hunt is by far the MOST important thing isn't it. Equipment is a FAR second when you think about it. Thanks for putting that back into perspective for us.

Oregon has special tags for handicap folks that allow shooting from the road and also from a vehicle. Oregon also has miles and miles and miles of logging roads from which to hunt. Just in case you ever get that Bull elk itch.

Good luck to ya and thanks for the trailer pic.

 

[joseph]

Since you are interested in an A-Frame trailer check out this Forum:

A Frame Campers - Forest River Forums

joseph