Wlhofer
Well-Known Member
How far out would a 243 95 gr Berger still be afactive on a deer tc single shoot barrel shooting 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards
243 how far on deer
- Thread starter Wlhofer
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luke
Well-Known Member
How fast do they leave the barrel? The effective killing range really depends on the velocity.
Md reloader
Well-Known Member
For deer I like to have 1K ft/lb of energy.You need to see when you reach that at what distance.
Wlhofer
Well-Known Member
Thanx for input guys Iam working up a load at the moment haven't set up crono yet
westcliffe01
Well-Known Member
My 243 AI with the 95 gr berger VLD maintains 1000ftlb out to 600+ yards. For deer sized game, 800ftlb seems to be a more commonly accepted bullet energy target. Colorado Parks and Wildlife however concur on the 1000ftlb for whitetail and 1500 (min) for elk.
Catfur
Well-Known Member
I bet that a more important number is whatever minimum velocity you have for bullet expansion.
coues7
Well-Known Member
How exactly does one determine that?
Catfur
Well-Known Member
Usually, check with the bullet mfg. 1800fps is a good number for a typical HPBT, 2000fps for a monometal expanding bullet.
Using, as an example, a 95 grain Berger classic hybrid, with a muzzle velocity at 3025, and typical fall hunting conditions where I am, the bullet is travelling 1820 fps at 700 yards. Berger recommends 1825 fps for good expansion, so 700 yards is a good max number.
Can I hit a deer at 700 yards? That's a completely different question...
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coues7
Well-Known Member
anyone have expansion data on the 95gr Nosler Ballistic Tip? My daughters 243 shoots those like a laser beam!
I shoot the Nosler "combined technologies" 95 grain ballistic tip. 3212 fps at muzzle.
I have complete pass through and full expansion (1-2 in exit holes) on deer sized game at 350 yards.
Based on my experience.. I use a high shoulder shot to three hundred yards.. from 400 to 500 I would hold behind the shoulder to miss the scapula.
After 500 yards.. I think you are approaching problem territory. To many variables to KNOW that you will make a clean kill. IMHO.
westcliffe01
Well-Known Member
With a BC of 0.38 vs 0.48 (Berger 95gr VLD) or 0.532 (105gr Berger VLD) you will be losing energy at a significantly faster rate with the Nosler compared to a Berger. Wind drift will be substantially higher too.
I can understand that you would be inclined to keep engagement distances shorter based on that choice. Of course finding an acceptable "jump" to shoot the Berger in a satisfactory way requires more work, and many factory barrels will not shoot either well or at all. But with a good 1:8 twist match barrel, and possibly with an Ackley chamber, those loads shoot beautifully.
I can understand that you would be inclined to keep engagement distances shorter based on that choice. Of course finding an acceptable "jump" to shoot the Berger in a satisfactory way requires more work, and many factory barrels will not shoot either well or at all. But with a good 1:8 twist match barrel, and possibly with an Ackley chamber, those loads shoot beautifully.
Catfur
Well-Known Member
Just running with your bullet (using a basic online, browser based ballistic calculator). Nosler recommends 1800fps for expansion of the ballistic tip (from their catalog). Using a G1 BC discounted 5% for Nosler's "Optimistic" published BC. At ISA, you have 575 yards until the bullet drops below recommended expansion velocity, 400 yards before you hit the 1000ft-lbs that many go by.
400 yards is farther than the overwhelming majority of deer will be shot at, and 575 is starting to get out there pretty good.
Using, as another example, the load I am working on in my 6mm, and a book estimated max load velocity, with a 6mm 105gr VLD, I will have 1000ft-lbs out to 600 yards, and minimum expansion velocity out to 775 in ISA. In atmospheric conditions I'm likely to encounter during my deer season this fall, I have 1000ft-lbs out to 700 yards, and 1825fps at 900 yards.
I'm nowhere near a good enough shot (yet) to be comfortable taking a shot at a deer at 700 yards, let alone 900, so I figure I have more than enough rifle to get the job done for any shot I am likely to take (my 300 RUM would kill a deer at artillery ranges).
Find a ballistic calculator you like and play with the numbers.
westcliffe01
Well-Known Member
What one can, and what one should may be 2 different things. Before I would engage a game animal at a certain range I would have practiced that shot at equal or longer ranges in field conditions and convinced myself that I had sufficient skill not only to apply the techniques, but also to know when I might not be able to deal with the specific weather conditions.
I will admit that I have been "winging it" with wind conditions, but I have my Kestrel with AB software paid for and just waiting for them to start shipping... Another 2 weeks and I can begin scientifically testing wind correction in the field.
Frankly, 400 yards on a relatively big target like a deer does not sound like a heck of a challenge. Now a coyote with 6" of body depth at 450 yards (which never stops moving) is another story. Except for wind, I think a 600 yard shot on a deer is equal or easier than the 450 yards shot on the coyote. But using reduced BC bullets makes everything harder, especially if there is a bit of wind blowing. I went through this learning curve really fast when I started coyote hunting and i was told to get a 223 and load up 55gr Vmax bullets. 1 year later I concluded that everything I had been told had been by people who made those recommendations was wrong and was based on shooting coyotes in brush at distances of 20-50 yards.
I just got through watching a DVD "The Modern Predator Hunter" by Byron South, and what a shambles it was. I should have known as soon as it started with the old fart showing off his brand new LaRue AR-15 with EOTech red dot and 3x flip up magnifier how this was going to go. Basically for more than half the DVD the guy misses almost every shot and the shot gunner scores almost every hit they make, all the way past 40 yards... I think the longest shot was ~120 yards. Later in the video he replaces the red dot and magnifier with a "real" scope with a red dot mounted on top and actually scores a few hits, but again all less than 150 yards. Lotsa bullets = lotsa misses more often than not.
Unfortunately I don't live where he does, around here I have yet to see a coyote come in to a call. But every time any stray through where I am set up, at least 1 bites the dust and the last time it was 2.
Instead of looking at the bullet velocity and energy (which logically favor a high BC), how about adding a 10mph crosswind and looking at bullet drift ? That is harder to compensate for accurately and ultimately is the most significant factor in deciding whether a shot is a go or no-go.
I will admit that I have been "winging it" with wind conditions, but I have my Kestrel with AB software paid for and just waiting for them to start shipping... Another 2 weeks and I can begin scientifically testing wind correction in the field.
Frankly, 400 yards on a relatively big target like a deer does not sound like a heck of a challenge. Now a coyote with 6" of body depth at 450 yards (which never stops moving) is another story. Except for wind, I think a 600 yard shot on a deer is equal or easier than the 450 yards shot on the coyote. But using reduced BC bullets makes everything harder, especially if there is a bit of wind blowing. I went through this learning curve really fast when I started coyote hunting and i was told to get a 223 and load up 55gr Vmax bullets. 1 year later I concluded that everything I had been told had been by people who made those recommendations was wrong and was based on shooting coyotes in brush at distances of 20-50 yards.
I just got through watching a DVD "The Modern Predator Hunter" by Byron South, and what a shambles it was. I should have known as soon as it started with the old fart showing off his brand new LaRue AR-15 with EOTech red dot and 3x flip up magnifier how this was going to go. Basically for more than half the DVD the guy misses almost every shot and the shot gunner scores almost every hit they make, all the way past 40 yards... I think the longest shot was ~120 yards. Later in the video he replaces the red dot and magnifier with a "real" scope with a red dot mounted on top and actually scores a few hits, but again all less than 150 yards. Lotsa bullets = lotsa misses more often than not.
Unfortunately I don't live where he does, around here I have yet to see a coyote come in to a call. But every time any stray through where I am set up, at least 1 bites the dust and the last time it was 2.
Instead of looking at the bullet velocity and energy (which logically favor a high BC), how about adding a 10mph crosswind and looking at bullet drift ? That is harder to compensate for accurately and ultimately is the most significant factor in deciding whether a shot is a go or no-go.
Catfur
Well-Known Member
Comparing a .338 300 gr Elite Hunter to a 105 VLD: 12 vs. 18 inches at 600, 30 vs 45 inches at 900 yards. A noticeable difference at any long range, but not a real showstopper one vs. the other.
Now when the wind is blowing like it does someplace like Capitan, NM, where every single wind flag out to 1000 can be seen going a different direction to every other flag, well...
...maybe it's time to try and get a little closer.
