Looking for a new Rifle

[Richard Owl Mirror]

Well, that rifle my friend said he was going to set me up with, apparently won't be happening now. When he told me about it, I didn't realize he had already listed it in an auction. He said not to worry, that he would do the bidding on my behalf and he should be able to get it for between $400-$500.
I haven't heard back from him since the auction so, I can only assume someone bid far more than $500 for the rifle. I told him not to go beyond $500.

The only other options I have are Pawn Shops, Cabela's and a few other Gun Shops about 70 miles away to go look for a rifle to buy.
I was looking on the internet and found a site which offers easy selection of criteria, then they list all matches. Then when you select a model, they offer the option to find a dealer near you where you can purchase that particular firearm. You may already be familiar with it but, it is Lipsey's - Wholesale Firearms Distributor - Exclusive Firearms - Handguns, Shotguns, Rifles, Accessories

They really offer an easy to use interface which allows you to select from each category of Manufacturers, Product Families, Models, Calibers/Guages, Actions, Finishes & Stocks/Frames.

While I am new to all this, one question I have is: would it be smart to buy a rifle which can use the Nato rounds?
5.56×45mm & 7.62×51mm ?
While my main interest is hunting deer & elk, would it be wise to buy a rifle that uses these rounds?
Can you hunt elk with a .223 Remington cartridge ?
Can you hunt elk with a .308 Winchester cartridge ?

If I am going to go to the store and buy a brand new rifle, I might as well get the best all around rifle.

Any thoughts on which way I should go? Remember, due to medical conditions, I am a recoil-sensitive individual.
I know there are products which can assist recoil-sensitive individuals, such as shoulder pads etc.
Any one particular rifle you would suggest?
Keep in mind, I live on SSDI so, money is a factor in what I can afford to buy.

 

[Engineering101]

A .223 is a definite no go for elk. A 308 Win has killed many elk but it is probably not on top of the list of elk cartridges, especially if you get out past 400 yards. I think you should consider the Savage Model 111 Long Range Hunter in either the 7mm Rem Mag or 300 Win Mag. Check out the Savage website to see the details. It comes with a muzzle brake to reduce recoil and both of those cartridges are very popular with a wide selection of ammo available. You could get one of these rifles new for around $850. Add a decent scope and rings and you would be ready to go. Also, Savage rifles tend to be some of the more accurate factory rifles.

 

[Dr. Vette]

Well, that rifle my friend said he was going to set me up with, apparently won't be happening now. When he told me about it, I didn't realize he had already listed it in an auction. He said not to worry, that he would do the bidding on my behalf and he should be able to get it for between $400-$500.
I haven't heard back from him since the auction so, I can only assume someone bid far more than $500 for the rifle. I told him not to go beyond $500.

I assume you mean that he was referring to a rifle in an auction listing, not that your friend had it listed himself as the owner? If he already owned it, he only had to stop the listing early.

I can think of no particular benefit to buying a NATO spec cartridge unless you are already in law enforcement and have access to free/cheap ammo. So, keep looking for a better cartridge if you're considering elk in the equation.

Edit - I found your original post, and apparently he didn't have it in an online auction.

Search Gunbroker and you can find other 270 rifles with muzzle brakes:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=339008148

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=339142034

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I just bought one of these in 223 for $479 at the local Sportsmans Warehouse and did a little load work with it this weekend and am very happy with it. I've already got a couple of 1/2 MOA loads with it.

I would not recommend 223 for elk, but you could look at the 25-06, 7mm-08 and 308. The 25-06 would be a borderline elk cartridge. The 7mm-08 and 308 would be good elk cartridges, just not as long range as their bigger brothers.

Vanguard Series 2 Synthetic | Weatherby.com

 

[Richard Owl Mirror]

A .223 is a definite no go for elk. A 308 Win has killed many elk but it is probably not on top of the list of elk cartridges, especially if you get out past 400 yards. I think you should consider the Savage Model 111 Long Range Hunter in either the 7mm Rem Mag or 300 Win Mag. Check out the Savage website to see the details. It comes with a muzzle brake to reduce recoil and both of those cartridges are very popular with a wide selection of ammo available. You could get one of these rifles new for around $850. Add a decent scope and rings and you would be ready to go. Also, Savage rifles tend to be some of the more accurate factory rifles.

Is this the model you are talking about?

Savage® Arms Model 11 Hunter XP Rifle Package $439.99
(.300 Win Mag - mounted, boresighted 3-9x40 Bushnell scope.)

or is it:

Savage® Arms 111 Trophy Rifle with Scope Package $549.99
(.300 Win - mounted and boresighted Nikon Prostaff 3-9x40 BDC reticle )

Both are listed on the Cabela website.

 

[Richard Owl Mirror]

I assume you mean that he was referring to a rifle in an auction listing, not that your friend had it listed himself as the owner? If he already owned it, he only had to stop the listing early.

I can think of no particular benefit to buying a NATO spec cartridge unless you are already in law enforcement and have access to free/cheap ammo. So, keep looking for a better cartridge if you're considering elk in the equation.

Edit - I found your original post, and apparently he didn't have it in an online auction.

Search Gunbroker and you can find other 270 rifles with muzzle brakes:

Remington model 700, 270 : Bolt Action Rifles at GunBroker.com

MOSSBERG 4X4 .270 CAL. BOLT ACTION RIFLE : Bolt Action Rifles at GunBroker.com

No the auction was at a local place listed as an estate auction.
He said he owned the rifle but, since it was already listed he couldn't pull it out. I can only assume, being in an auction, he wanted the highest price paid. When I spoke to him the morning of the auction he said he already had people who phoned him with bids.

There is one wrinkle, which has been ironed out.
I went to Cabela's originally because they had a sale ongoing. I took the background check and was denied. I couldn't understand the reason why since i haven't been in trouble. I applied an appeal to find the answer. The answer came back saying that in 1983 someone reported me as having 'Damaged Property'. I was completely unaware of this to this day. I called the District Attorney in Georgia and they said that the charge had been dismissed in 1983 because there was no evidence i was involved yet, apparently this record still existed as being in a state of DEAD DOCKET (pdf)?
They are sending me a letter stating that the charge was dismissed in 1983 and I need to send that to the NICS so they can clear the matter up and allow me to purchase through the background check system. I should get that letter some time this week, then have to wait until the NICS responds before i can go to an FFL dealer and legally purchase a firearm.
That is why I was relying on my friend to help me out.

 

[Engineering101]

Richard

The two Savage models you mentioned are NOT the rifle to which I was referring – for one thing they don't have muzzle brakes and come with cheapie premounted scopes. Check Savages firearms list on their website to see the 111 Long Range Hunter. (For a few hundred more, you can get it in 338 Lapua if you want to really go big.) The 300 WSM is also nice if you want to go with a slightly shorter action/rifle.

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/11LONGRANGEHUNTER

Since you are in Montana, I've assumed that you could end up with some longer shooting opportunities than would typically be found in many other states. So for you, the "decent scope" I was thinking of was more of a 6X24 power, 30 mm tube, tactical type that would be suitable for long range shooting.

The scopes that come premounted on the rifles you mentioned would not be of suitable quality or power in my opinion. If on the other hand you just want to jump shoot deer with no dial up for long range shooting, a 3X9 power would be fine. Personally I don't tend to shoot game anymore when they are moving so a 6 power scope on the low end is not a problem for me but it could be too much under certain conditions. A decent scope would be like a Vortex Viper PST, Sightron III, Bushell 6500 Elite (I like their 4.5X to 30X), Leupold Mark IV which can be had for $800 and up. I think you need at least 20 power on the high end. Since you said that you are not made of money (I'm not either), I won't mention the new Nightforce ATACR 5X25 other than to say it is really nice and really expensive. A guy I met at the range the other day had one. He let me play with it a bit. I have to say that yes, I was jealous.

 

[westcliffe01]

Consider this rifle:
Widener's Reloading and Shooting Supply INC
Its a model 110 in 6.5x284 with a 24" fluted barrel. $738 shipped to your FFL and they are in stock.

I personally want a stainless action and a 26"+ barrel but that adds a lot to the up front cost. The 110 is the long action version of the model 10 and I have the impression it has not been cheapened up the way Savage has done with the model 11 and some of the others. I currently have a model 10, a model 12 and a second 12 on the way in 308.

The 6.5x284 is a very effective long range round and good for all the game you intend to hunt for. There are very good bullets for it too, but ideally you would reload. You can get factory ammo but it is not inexpensive. 130 or 140gr Berger hunting bullets with the right load will have you smiling... Recoil is modest. The barrel will not last forever, so its not a gun for "blasting".

 

[FEENIX]

Search Gunbroker and you can find other 270 rifles with muzzle brake:

Remington model 700, 270 : Bolt Action Rifles at GunBroker.com

+1. It's hunt ready and within your price range -- just some rough est. breakdown ...

$150 - est. cost for muzzle brake and installation installed
+$150 - est. cost of Scope
$300
+$205 - est. cost of rifle only
$505 cost of entire set-up (+ shipping/ins and FFL xfr fee)

Use 150gr Berger VLD from HSM (http://thehuntingshack.com/catalog/retail/ProductList.pdf) with MV=3048 FPS and ME=3095 FT-LB and you're set.

 

[Buano]

Elk are BIG animals! Forget the .223 and the .308. Although either could kill an animal, neither is close to an optimal elk cartridge.

cartridges to consider:
.270 Win or preferably WSM
6.5x284,
264 Win mag
7 mm Rem (or Weatherby)
.300 WSM
.300 Win (or Weatherby)
.338 Win mag
.340 Weatherby

I suspect the 7 MM Rem mag is the most used elk cartridge based on how many hunters I've met who cary that cartridge although I think the .300 Win mag is a much better elk cartridge, and it's what I consider the minimum I will recommend for elk. The .300 and .338 magnums are your best "all round" elk cartridges. For jump-shooting elk in the timber I like my .375 H&H or my .338/.378 as bullet placement is less critical.

 

[Richard Owl Mirror]

Richard

The two Savage models you mentioned are NOT the rifle to which I was referring – for one thing they don't have muzzle brakes and come with cheapie premounted scopes. Check Savages firearms list on their website to see the 111 Long Range Hunter. (For a few hundred more, you can get it in 338 Lapua if you want to really go big.) The 300 WSM is also nice if you want to go with a slightly shorter action/rifle.

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/11LONGRANGEHUNTER

Since you are in Montana, I've assumed that you could end up with some longer shooting opportunities than would typically be found in many other states. So for you, the "decent scope" I was thinking of was more of a 6X24 power, 30 mm tube, tactical type that would be suitable for long range shooting.

The scopes that come premounted on the rifles you mentioned would not be of suitable quality or power in my opinion. If on the other hand you just want to jump shoot deer with no dial up for long range shooting, a 3X9 power would be fine. Personally I don't tend to shoot game anymore when they are moving so a 6 power scope on the low end is not a problem for me but it could be too much under certain conditions. A decent scope would be like a Vortex Viper PST, Sightron III, Bushell 6500 Elite (I like their 4.5X to 30X), Leupold Mark IV which can be had for $800 and up. I think you need at least 20 power on the high end. Since you said that you are not made of money (I'm not either), I won't mention the new Nightforce ATACR 5X25 other than to say it is really nice and really expensive. A guy I met at the range the other day had one. He let me play with it a bit. I have to say that yes, I was jealous.

Thanks for all the info but, the Rifle $1020.00 + Scope $1049.00 is way out of my league. maybe I shouldn't pursue this activity. What with my medical condition I am not sure I can qualify making that type of investment for something I am unsure of how much or how well I will be able to participate.

 

[Richard Owl Mirror]

+1. It's hunt ready and within your price range -- just some rough est. breakdown ...

$150 - est. cost for muzzle brake and installation installed
+$150 - est. cost of Scope
$300
+$205 - est. cost of rifle only
$505 cost of entire set-up (+ shipping/ins and FFL xfr fee)

Use 150gr Berger VLD from HSM (http://thehuntingshack.com/catalog/retail/ProductList.pdf) with MV=3048 FPS and ME=3095 FT-LB and you're set.

Now your recommendation is a bit more reasonable for me personally.
Thank you for the info, when I get this NICS thing cleared up I can think about going to GunBroker.com or perhaps find a similar deal locally.

 

[Rbreb13]

Elk are BIG animals! Forget the .223 and the .308. Although either could kill an animal, neither is close to an optimal elk cartridge.

cartridges to consider:
.270 Win or preferably WSM
6.5x284,
264 Win mag
7 mm Rem (or Weatherby)
.300 WSM
.300 Win (or Weatherby)
.338 Win mag
.340 Weatherby

I suspect the 7 MM Rem mag is the most used elk cartridge based on how many hunters I've met who cary that cartridge although I think the .300 Win mag is a much better elk cartridge, and it's what I consider the minimum I will recommend for elk. The .300 and .338 magnums are your best "all round" elk cartridges. For jump-shooting elk in the timber I like my .375 H&H or my .338/.378 as bullet placement is less critical.

I lived in Colorado for 35 years. I've hunted Elk many times and with many people. Most common cartridge was probably the 300 Win Mag. Next was 30-06, then you have all the others. Personally I've taken most of my Elk with my 300 Win Mag's. But have also taken with 270 Win, 7mm Rem Mag, 444 Marlin and even a 243. The 243 was a fluke though, it was a very close shot (less than 100 Yds) and I was deer hunting at the time.
For the OP a 270 with muzzle brake should suffice with care taken as to shot placement and distance.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Elk are BIG animals! Forget the .223 and the .308. Although either could kill an animal, neither is close to an optimal elk cartridge.

A 308 shoots the same bullets as any 300 Magnum, just a little slower. Guys are taking elk with 7mm and 308 bullets down to 1800 fps. That's what they do in Long Range Hunting. With the right load a 308 can send a 208 A-Max 900 yds down range above 1800 fps and 1500 ftlbs of energy. Same story with the 7-08.