CCI Primers not firing

[Ultramag45]

I have an AWESOME load worked up for my 338 RUM...shooting 89 gr of H1000 and 300 SMK. it shoots in the .125s at 100 consistantly.. Big Problem I have been a federal primer guy, this load shoots with CCI 250s.. and I have been getting a few Misfires out of the last 30 shots reloaded.... It wont shoot very well with 215's or match 215's.. havent tried other primers then Federal... the load is TOO GOOD TO FORGET ABOUT!!!! thought about some Winchester... what do you guys think, thanksgun)

 

[PaLuke]

Its amazing that when we find something great in reloading, something takes a dump. I use Federal 215's in almost my magnums and a 25-06 and I trust them. My friend swears to CCI 200 and 250's. Is it possible they were soiled or maybe just a bad batch. I wish I had the right answer for you. You know how it goes, If you want to hear God laugh, make plans.

 

[farout]

I too have had fail to fire (FTF) with CCI primers. if you look around the web and even this forum, you'll probably find it more common than you would think.

I worked up a load for a 30 RUM and H1000. tried F215M and CCI 250. The CCI 250 gave average 45 FPS more speed than the F2015Ms with the exact same powder load. I was happy! This put me right at 3150 FPS without having to add more powder. I could feel the difference in recoil. The CCI 250s were definitely stronger. I assumed that I was getting better powder burn with the CCIs but my standard deviation stayed the same...

The the following week I had three FTF out of 20 rounds fired! Started looking around and found others had similar problems. It's not a huge problem, but people have reported it. I have since fired 100 more of these rounds (from the same lot of CCI 250s) and have not had another FTF. Doesn't mean I trust them now though.

People have commented that the cup on the CCI250s is stronger material. May be, I don't know. One interesting thing I remember about those 20 though was that I did seat a few primers with more seating pressure than I usually do. I use a Hornady hand primer seater and I let the handle "cam over" a few times. I usually stop before that point. I think I may have damaged the priming compound in a few primers by doing this. No real proof though. When I pulled the pullets, I found that the primers had not fired at all. No weak flash or anything, just did nothing.


Had loaded for years with Federal, Winchester, and Remington primers and NEVER had a FTF. At some point I will go back to F215Ms and work up a load before hunting with the rifle. Last thing I want is a FTF with a critter in my sights!

Here's a primer size chart and a short write up on primer "Brisance" that might be interesting.

+++++++
Primers are not measured in "burn rate", but by their "Brisance".
Brisance - is a measure of the rapidity with which an explosive develops its maximum pressure

Here are the results of a test done to determine the brisance of primers. The testing was apparently done with a home made ballistic pendulum, which left a lot to be desired. So, don't take this as gospel but as a rough indicator. It does show there are great differences in primers

RIfle Primers
Brand/type_________Power Average___Range____Std. Dev
1... Fed Match GM215M___6.12______ 5.23-6.8_____.351
2... Federal 215 LRM _____5.69______ 5.2-6.5 _____.4437
3... CCI 250 LRM_________5.66______ 4.5-7.4_____ .4832
4... Winchester WLRM____ 5.45______ 5.1-6.0 _____.2046
5... Remington 9 1/2M LR _ 5.09 _____ 3.5-6.75 ____.6641
6... Winchester WLR _____ 4.8 ______ 4.1-6.0 _____.4300
7... Remington 9 1/2 LR __ 4.75 _____ 3.7-6.25 ____.5679
8... Fed Match GM210M __ 4.64 _____4.0-5.6 ____ .3296
9... Federal 210 LR ______ 4.62_____ 3.7-5.5 ____.3997
10.. CCI BR2 ____________4.37_____ 4.0-5.0 ____ .2460
11.. CCI 200 LR __________4.28 ____ 3.8-4.8 ____ .3218
12.. KVB 7 LR Russian_____ 4.27 ____3.8-4.8 ____ .2213
13.. Rem 91/2 (30 yrs old)_ 4.16 ____ 3.8-4.8 ____.3427

Pistol Primers
14 Rem LP ___________4.47_______ 3.2-5.6 _______.5171
15 KVB 45 LP Russian __3.89 _______3.3-4.2 _______ .2232
16 CCI 300 LP________ 3.18_______ 2.7-3.5 _______ .2406
17 Federal 150 LP _____3.11 _______2.6-3.5 _______.2090
18 Fed Match GM150M_ 3.05 _______ 2.6-3.7 ______ .2299

 

[284nut]

I have an AWESOME load worked up for my 338 RUM...shooting 89 gr of H1000 and 300 SMK. it shoots in the .125s at 100 consistantly.. Big Problem I have been a federal primer guy, this load shoots with CCI 250s.. and I have been getting a few Misfires out of the last 30 shots reloaded.... It wont shoot very well with 215's or match 215's.. havent tried other primers then Federal... the load is TOO GOOD TO FORGET ABOUT!!!! thought about some Winchester... what do you guys think, thanksgun)

I don't know what to say, I have never had a misfire with a CCI 250, I assume these 250 caps were all out of the same container???

I have CCI Magnum pistol primers that are over 15 years old in my stash, loaded 100 rounds last week with no mis fires at the range. I have always heard from dad to make sure to get no oil from fingers on the primers, could this be a possibility??

 

[Broz]

I have been getting a few Misfires out of the last 30 shots reloaded....

I just had the same issue with a 338 Edge build. It was not the primers (CCI250's) in my case, but the light weight firing pin and too weak of firing pin spring. I would disassemble the bolt and firing pin assembly and clean it. Then look strongly at the possibility of a weak spring.

Jeff

 

[7stw]

I just had the same issue with a 338 Edge build. It was not the primers (CCI250's) in my case, but the light weight firing pin and too weak of firing pin spring. I would disassemble the bolt and firing pin assembly and clean it. Then look strongly at the possibility of a weak spring.

Jeff

As usual, I think Broz could be onto something there! Like all have said, I have never had a FTF issue, with ANY primers for that matter!

 

[Ultramag45]

I just had the same issue with a 338 Edge build. It was not the primers (CCI250's) in my case, but the light weight firing pin and too weak of firing pin spring. I would disassemble the bolt and firing pin assembly and clean it. Then look strongly at the possibility of a weak spring.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff, not to say it couldnt be...this is out of a New Mcwhorters Custom 338 RUm Stiller action...maybe 200 rounds thru it...Ill clean it up and see what happens...Thanks

 

[brentc]

I've shot thousands upon thousands of CCI 200's and 250's without a single misfire. I think Broz has the answer. I think you need to look at something other than the primers.

 

[Broz]

Thanks Jeff, not to say it couldnt be...this is out of a New Mcwhorters Custom 338 RUm Stiller action...maybe 200 rounds thru it...Ill clean it up and see what happens...Thanks

Does it have a light weight firing pin? If so I'll give odds. Mine was a new build from Score High rifles. When the first one didn't fire I though to myself, I just had my first "bad primer" in 30 years of loading Wrong!!

Here is the thread I started about it.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f37/primer-strike-issue-700-rem-111536/

Jeff

 

[farout]

I would Google "CCI Primer Misfires" and look thru what you get. It seems to be a somewhat known issue that CCI primers are made from a harder alloy than other primers and can cause issues in some guns. Seems USPSA pistol shooters are well aware of this.

Check this link: CCI or Federal Primers?.

Your issue may well be a light firing pin and weak spring. But why does that same same pin and spring work with other primers? Seems to be a fact that CCI primers can have issues in some rifles.

Sounds like you have found the utopian load for the gun and changing spring/pin may well be what will make the gun shoot it consistently. But in the end, it is the CCI primers that are out of spec, not your spring or pin...


Some folks have shot CCI primers for thousands of years and never had an issue. Some cannot get them to work in a particular gun at all.

 

[Ultramag45]

Does it have a light weight firing pin? If so I'll give odds. Mine was a new build from Score High rifles. When the first one didn't fire I though to myself, I just had my first "bad primer" in 30 years of loading Wrong!!

Here is the thread I started about it.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f37/primer-strike-issue-700-rem-111536/

Jeff

I took one of the misfires and loaded it in another 338 RUM still didnt go off...and loaded a different misfire, and it did fire...really strange, I will check the spring...are they easy to change

 

[Broz]

I took one of the misfires and loaded it in another 338 RUM still didnt go off...and loaded a different misfire, and it did fire...really strange, I will check the spring...are they easy to change

You need a $30 tool. Unless someone has a way to do it with out?

Jeff

 

[429421Cowboy]

Before i even clicked on this thread my first thought was exactly what Broz said, either too light of a pin or spring.
Maybe it is my background in single action revolvers but most primer issues can be traced back to lightened mainsprings in them, and this transfers over to rifles as well. I have never had a single problem with many thousands of CCI primers out of my guns, but i maintain that all of my hunting guns MUST have stock weight springs in them, there are plenty of other things to do to a gun, but reducing relyablity is not on my list! Add a light spring/pin and the fact that CCI cups are known to be harder, and it could just be enough to make life tough.

Now, this may turn out to be a totally different problem for you, but that is my 2 cents on lighter springs.

 

[Ultramag45]

You need a $30 tool. Unless someone has a way to do it with out?

Jeff

And that is..?..thanks