New rifle build advice from South Africa

[Jurgens]

Good day to every one on the forum
I need some help with deciding on witch rifle stock to choose for my rifle as well as some help on barrel options. I am starting my first custom build. The donor rifle is my current Rem 700 ADL chambered in .243 Win. I grew up with this rifle and have been hunting with this rifle since the age of 9 when my dad bought it for me back in 1994. I have decided to go for a .243 Winchester again as it has all the performance I need and I have hunted lots of game with the caliber, have lots in convidence with its killing power on smaller game plus I can load 105gr bullets with good BC's and be able to shoot out to 600m+ with ease. The barrel I have decided on is a Remington varmint/sendero profile that will have 6 flutes running down the barrel that will be Duracoated matte black as well as the trigger guard and action, I will have the action Pillar bedded by the smith that is going to do the build. I am thinking of a 26" barrel with a 9 in 1" twist. The reason for the 9 in 1" twist is that I want to shoot 105gr bullets for paper but still be able to shoot the 80gr TTSX bullets that I use for hunting. I like to compete in the Pro Amm competition here in South Africa that is shot with factory ammo ( 100gr for .243 Win) and I also compete is field shooting events. The Field shooting has basically no limits on your rifle but the Pro Amm limits one to a 26" barrel with a mussel no thicker than .85 and the rifle must be a sporter/hunting rifle so no competition/ bench rest rifles is allowed.
The two stocks I have in mind is the HS precision pro-series 2000 Varmint with ADL blind magazine and the second stock is the B & C Tactical Medalist style 3 with the M4 BLD drop in Trigger guard/ Floor plate, I would like the stock in Black with grey Web ( I am going to order at Stocky's and have it send to a friend in the USA that will send it to me). I have held and handled the HS stock and like the feel but have heard good things about the B & C butt I havened been able to handle one of them.
So with the top as back ground please assist me with the questions:
1- How does the skin of the B & C feel compared to the HS? I like the feel of the "Kevlar" skin. It doesn't feel like plastic and has a good grip.
2- What would your preferred stock be between the two brands and why?
3- Would the 9 in 1" twist be able to stabilize bullets from 80gr to 105gr? If not what twist would be better?
4- Is the 26" barrel Ideal or would a 24" or 22" be better?
Thanks so long in advance for the advice.
Regards
Jurgens

 

[WildRose]

Good day to every one on the forum
I need some help with deciding on witch rifle stock to choose for my rifle as well as some help on barrel options. I am starting my first custom build. The donor rifle is my current Rem 700 ADL chambered in .243 Win. I grew up with this rifle and have been hunting with this rifle since the age of 9 when my dad bought it for me back in 1994. I have decided to go for a .243 Winchester again as it has all the performance I need and I have hunted lots of game with the caliber, have lots in convidence with its killing power on smaller game plus I can load 105gr bullets with good BC's and be able to shoot out to 600m+ with ease. The barrel I have decided on is a Remington varmint/sendero profile that will have 6 flutes running down the barrel that will be Duracoated matte black as well as the trigger guard and action, I will have the action Pillar bedded by the smith that is going to do the build. I am thinking of a 26" barrel with a 9 in 1" twist. The reason for the 9 in 1" twist is that I want to shoot 105gr bullets for paper but still be able to shoot the 80gr TTSX bullets that I use for hunting. I like to compete in the Pro Amm competition here in South Africa that is shot with factory ammo ( 100gr for .243 Win) and I also compete is field shooting events. The Field shooting has basically no limits on your rifle but the Pro Amm limits one to a 26" barrel with a mussel no thicker than .85 and the rifle must be a sporter/hunting rifle so no competition/ bench rest rifles is allowed.
The two stocks I have in mind is the HS precision pro-series 2000 Varmint with ADL blind magazine and the second stock is the B & C Tactical Medalist style 3 with the M4 BLD drop in Trigger guard/ Floor plate, I would like the stock in Black with grey Web ( I am going to order at Stocky's and have it send to a friend in the USA that will send it to me). I have held and handled the HS stock and like the feel but have heard good things about the B & C butt I havened been able to handle one of them.
So with the top as back ground please assist me with the questions:
1- How does the skin of the B & C feel compared to the HS? I like the feel of the "Kevlar" skin. It doesn't feel like plastic and has a good grip.
2- What would your preferred stock be between the two brands and why?
3- Would the 9 in 1" twist be able to stabilize bullets from 80gr to 105gr? If not what twist would be better?
4- Is the 26" barrel Ideal or would a 24" or 22" be better?
Thanks so long in advance for the advice.
Regards
Jurgens

How much of the shooting both hunting and in the "shoots" is going to be standing supported vs prone on bipod and/or bags?

The H-S precision sendero stocks are great for both applications especially sitting and shooting from a blind or off of a bench, and more than adequate for prone, but not as good as the tactical/varmint models that are more specifically set up for prone.

The HS PSS model stocs and tactical varmint models will be better for prone but not as comfortable off of shooting sticks etc.

If I were thinking of "the best" all around stocks for all applications I'd look at the M-40 clones, McMillan A3 Sporter, and the McMillan hunter models.

As for twist rate I'm thinking you might want to go with the 1:8 or 1:8.5 for the heavier bullets but look at Berger's site and see what they specifically recommend.

I'd also say for these applications you should consider the .260rem vs the .243, as it will give you much higher BC's and superior long range performance vs anything the .243 can throw down range.

As far as the "feel" of the skins man that's so individual no one can really answer that for you. The B&C's are pretty smooth, but of course you can spray on grit to the areas you want more traction before coating the stock.

Also consider cerakote if you can get it done vs the duracoat as it's far more permanent and not subject to being as easily worn or chipped.

 

[Jurgens]

Re: New rifle build advice asked from South Africa

Thanks for the reply wildrose, I really apreciate it. Can you please assist me with a few more questions?
About 50% of the shooting will be done from the bench, 40% prone and 10% from shooting sticks.
So the stocks you would look at is the B & C tactical medalist 4 or the HS pro series 2000 Sendero Varmint A1 Tactical. The Manners and McMillan is above my budget at this stage. I wish there was so many second hand rifle components availible here in SA. If it was I would have picked up a previously loved McMillan or Manners and a BDL assembly.
My next rifle is going to be a 6.5mm or a 7mm whitch will be exlusively for long range shooting/Hunting. I am leaning towards a 6.5mm in either a .260Rem or the 6.5-06 or even the 6.5x55 mauser. My dad has a 7x57mauser, 7x64Breneke (almost the same as a .280 Rem) and a 7mmRemMag and I am going to inheret them all. The one 7mm I am really liking is the .280 Rem AI.
So for now I am going to stick to the .243Win to full the gap between the .223 and .30-06 ( End of next year the 6.5mm will be there as well). I see on the Berger site that a 8 twist is recomended for the 105gr bullets. Will the 8 twist work for the 80gr TTSX? I have no experiance with the Berger bullets, I have heard that they are deadley, but how is the neat damage if one shoot a chest shot? Is the penetrasion good?
Thanks Again
Jurgens

 

[WildRose]

Re: New rifle build advice asked from South Africa

Thanks for the reply wildrose, I really apreciate it. Can you please assist me with a few more questions?
About 50% of the shooting will be done from the bench, 40% prone and 10% from shooting sticks.
So the stocks you would look at is the B & C tactical medalist 4 or the HS pro series 2000 Sendero Varmint A1 Tactical. The Manners and McMillan is above my budget at this stage. I wish there was so many second hand rifle components availible here in SA. If it was I would have picked up a previously loved McMillan or Manners and a BDL assembly.
My next rifle is going to be a 6.5mm or a 7mm whitch will be exlusively for long range shooting/Hunting. I am leaning towards a 6.5mm in either a .260Rem or the 6.5-06 or even the 6.5x55 mauser. My dad has a 7x57mauser, 7x64Breneke (almost the same as a .280 Rem) and a 7mmRemMag and I am going to inheret them all. The one 7mm I am really liking is the .280 Rem AI.
So for now I am going to stick to the .243Win to full the gap between the .223 and .30-06 ( End of next year the 6.5mm will be there as well). I see on the Berger site that a 8 twist is recomended for the 105gr bullets. Will the 8 twist work for the 80gr TTSX? I have no experiance with the Berger bullets, I have heard that they are deadley, but how is the neat damage if one shoot a chest shot? Is the penetrasion good?
Thanks Again
Jurgens

Between the B&C and H-S you will find the overall quality better with the HS's usually. You might consider shopping the claissified section here at LRH as well as over at Sniper's hide for stocks. You can occasionally find some very good deals that save you months of waiting time. Also with them being 2nd hand purchases from individuals you may get around the VAT on imports as well. You'd have to look into that.

Currently I have 4 H-S stocks and I'm very happy with all of them. That includes both the regular sendero and varmint sendero models.

As far as the twist rates, you cannot over spin a bullet and destabilize it, but you can certainly never stabilize one if you lack enough twist.

Remember stabilization comes from RPM and RPM is a function of both speed and twist rate which is why you see higher twist rates recommended for some than others even in the same diameter bullets.

For me, of the .264's only three are worth consisering. The .264WM, Highest velocities of all the standard 6.5's, followed by the 6.5x284, and then the .260. You're really talking abou less than 300fps difference between them all and the .260 is just a great all around cartridge in that caliber. At least over here components are very reasonable and easy to come up with and of course you can get Lapua Brass in .260 or just neck down .308 brass for it.

For the plains game, even up to the size of Gemsbok I'd not hesitate with the .260 out to 600yds.

Now I'm not as hooked on the berger's as many are as a hunting bullet. They are specifically designed for long range use so as long as you are using them for that purpose they are fine, but I'd not want to use them where impact velocities can exceed 2,200fps for fear of bullet breakup and not enough penetration.

Personally I think the best overall hunting/LR bullett out to 1,000 yds would be the Swift Sirocco, and for high velocity impacts over 2,200fps I flat love the hornady Interlock. Both come in very high BC bullets for their calibers. I've had very good performance out of both from the .260 and .300 Rum on everything from rocks to coyotes and bobcats to large boar and deer. I've also had similar results with them in the 7mm mag and 7mm STW (my favorite all around rifle).

I must say though that the more I shoot the Siroccos the better I like them. I just don't have more than a decade of using them like I do with the interbond.

Back to the stocks. The one consistent complaint I hear about the B&C is that they usually require some additional inletting to get a good fit while the H-S's typically need nothing but a good bedding and floating.

I'm personally tearing myself up trying to decide on whther to save my money for an extra six months or year for a Mc or to just go with another H-S on my current 7mm STW project. Whichever way I go I'll end up happy in the end.

For your purposes the fully adjustable A-5 may well be the way to go since 90% will be bench or prone shooting. The tactical/varmint models would be the next including the M24 clones. If you like the thumbhole type stock they also make the M24TH model.

I would suggest at least going with an adjustable cheek piece if not a fully adjustable stock.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Jurgens]

Thank you so mutch for the advice, I realy apreciate it.
The A-5 does look nice! I see stocky's has some for just under $800, I will have to save a bit more for a new one!
Is the McMillan worth that extra amount of money?
My head is leaning towards a .260 Rem. Components are very availible and there is good variety to choose from.
I am going to hunt in Namibia in 2014 for Kudu, Gemsbuck and some Springbuck where long shots is the norm so I want my 6.5mm ready by then.
Thanks again for all the advice!

 

[WildRose]

Thank you so mutch for the advice, I realy apreciate it.
The A-5 does look nice! I see stocky's has some for just under $800, I will have to save a bit more for a new one!
Is the McMillan worth that extra amount of money?
My head is leaning towards a .260 Rem. Components are very availible and there is good variety to choose from.
I am going to hunt in Namibia in 2014 for Kudu, Gemsbuck and some Springbuck where long shots is the norm so I want my 6.5mm ready by then.
Thanks again for all the advice!

Is the Mc worth the extra??? To some it is, to others not. The biggest advantage is what it adds to resale value.

There's a very nice B&C fully adjustable A-5 LA in the LRH classified section for sale now.

With the higher end H-S Stocks there's very little difference in price between them and the Mc's.

I have one special build I'd like to go all out and put in a Mc. I'm perfectly comfortable with my H-S's though and don't see any advantage in replacing any of them with Mc's.

The .260 isn't going to be quite as fast as the 6.5x284, but 200fps isn't going to make much difference at least out to 800yds.

If you are serious about shooting beyond that on larger harder to kill game then I'd go up to either it or the .264WM which is a great round.

For the extra velocity you get from those though comes reduced barrel life/increased throat erosion.

I personally went with the .260 and don't regret it a bit.

 

[Jurgens]

I will keep looking in the classifeids to see if a SA stock pops up.
I am very comfotable shooting game out to 300m and have a bit of paper practice to 400m but I prefer shooting 200m and less on game. I am not sure how it works in the USA, but over here if you shoot at the animal you pay. Some farms only if blood is found and on other full price if the shot is fired and some half price if the shot is fired and no blood is found. You can see what tha animals cost here so I prefer to get as close as posible on foot and make 100% sure of my shot. I have taken game past 300m but that is only when the situation calls for long shots. Whith that in mind the .260 Rem with a 140gr pill would be all I need for hunting so the extra speed and shorter barrel life of the "hotter" calibers cant justify them for my needs.

I handeld the Tikka Super Varmint the other day and it feld awsome! I am thinking of buying the Tikka Super Varmint in 260Rem as i know the Tikka's are very accurate out of the box. My dad has a 9.3x62mm that is stock standard that shoot .4" 5 shot groups with 286gr TSX bullets at 100m all day long.
What is your thoughts on the Tikka? It would work out a lot cheaper than a build. A Remongton action+ floorplate and trigger gaurd would set me back about $ 1250, Juwel trigger $ 300, a barrel $ 650, Gunsmith $ 300, Stock $ 500, Duracoat $100 so the build would be atleast $ 3100 where the Tikka is $ 2300 ready to shoot with. With the extra money I am halfway to a pretty decent scope!

If you ever get the chance to visit SA let me know! It would be nice to thank you in person for the advice given.

 

[WildRose]

I will keep looking in the classifeids to see if a SA stock pops up.
I am very comfotable shooting game out to 300m and have a bit of paper practice to 400m but I prefer shooting 200m and less on game. I am not sure how it works in the USA, but over here if you shoot at the animal you pay. Some farms only if blood is found and on other full price if the shot is fired and some half price if the shot is fired and no blood is found. You can see what tha animals cost here so I prefer to get as close as posible on foot and make 100% sure of my shot. I have taken game past 300m but that is only when the situation calls for long shots. Whith that in mind the .260 Rem with a 140gr pill would be all I need for hunting so the extra speed and shorter barrel life of the "hotter" calibers cant justify them for my needs.

I handeld the Tikka Super Varmint the other day and it feld awsome! I am thinking of buying the Tikka Super Varmint in 260Rem as i know the Tikka's are very accurate out of the box. My dad has a 9.3x62mm that is stock standard that shoot .4" 5 shot groups with 286gr TSX bullets at 100m all day long.
What is your thoughts on the Tikka? It would work out a lot cheaper than a build. A Remongton action+ floorplate and trigger gaurd would set me back about $ 1250, Juwel trigger $ 300, a barrel $ 650, Gunsmith $ 300, Stock $ 500, Duracoat $100 so the build would be atleast $ 3100 where the Tikka is $ 2300 ready to shoot with. With the extra money I am halfway to a pretty decent scope!

If you ever get the chance to visit SA let me know! It would be nice to thank you in person for the advice given.

Tikkas are indeed nice. I'm so happy though with my sendero's and VSSFII that I see no need to spend the money on one.

I'm getting sub .5 accuracy with factory loads out of both the Sendero .300 Rum and VSSF 220 swift and that's all a man can ask for.

All I've done to either was to bed them and float them.

If Winchester will chamber the coyote model in .260 I'll probably end up owning one as I really like that platform as well, and I jut have a long standing love affair with the Mod 70 action. I just don't feel right unless I own at least two of them and right now I'm down to one... .

I have very good freinds in SA and my dogs are slowly taking over the SA GSP breeding pool so I suspect at some point I'll be making a trip that way, but it's still a few years off.

In fact my friend there might be able to help you with your build or in ordering a rifle as that's part of his business.

His blog for his kennel is here:

Matotoland Kennel: Wildrose There Goes My Last Dollar - Dash

His name is Francois VD Walt.

 

[Jurgens]

Thank a lot for the contact!
Can I contact him or do you wanne just give him a heads up?
Personaly I am n big Rem 700 fan. I also love the CZ ( old BRNO) rifles but my No.1 choice would always be a Rem 700.

 

[WildRose]

Thank a lot for the contact!
Can I contact him or do you wanne just give him a heads up?
Personaly I am n big Rem 700 fan. I also love the CZ ( old BRNO) rifles but my No.1 choice would always be a Rem 700.

Look him up. I'm sure he'd be glad to do anything he can to help you out. Francois is a great guy.

 

[Jurgens]

Thanks a million Wildrose for all the advice.
I will look him up.
Have a nice day and thanks again!

 

[WildRose]

Thanks a million Wildrose for all the advice.
I will look him up.
Have a nice day and thanks again!

Be sure and drop me a line and let me know how it goes. My bet is that you will make a new life long friend with the first call or email.