Opinions needed- 230gr Berger H1000 Ladder Test

[cwinner]

I need some help understanding what I'm seeing here, I ran out this afternoon and shot a ladder test in my stock barreled Mk-V accumark .30-378 with 230gr Berger OTM and various charges of H1000 starting at 94.6 gr through 99gr of powder backed by Fed 215Match primers. I shot a total of 28 rounds at 200 yds, starting with three fouling shots into just over 1MOA then proceded to fire 25 rounds on a fresh target ( see below). I fired in four shot groups with ample time between to cool with a target on my bench to mark the hit locations and number them, then after every 4 shots I would go down to the target to mark numbers on it ( add 3 to the numbers on the target to see the corresponding shot on the chrony tape) and really give things time to cool down.( got my walking in for the evening!). The target has grid lines every 1" with the diamond 1" as well....I had a tailwind 4-6oClock gusting sometimes to 10mh which was effectively a 3 mph crosswind at best but most times was relatively calm....what was puzzling to me was all the horizontal stringing I was seeing with most of the shots falling into a 1 MOA band through most of the test. I did not start to get out of this vertical band until shots 18-25. You can see the numbers next to the holes ( I know I pulled #4&23 but 13 felt good) and the corresponding charge & velocity from my Ohler 35 chrony....my Nosler manual shows 98.5gr as max but I was still getting velocity increases and no pressure signs at 99gr. One interesting outcome was a 50fps SD across all the shots. Did I not do big enough charge weight increases? My shooting elevation is just under 5,000ft with temps in the low 70's.

Im looking for anyone with experience with this type of test to give me some thoughts on what I have here.....I think I run another one with some Retumbo powder this weekend and will update this thread with those results as well, but in the meantimeplease give me some thoughts, I'm not too sure I'm happy with this load combination at the moment but need some second oppinions.

Thanks in advance!!

 

[Nimrod1203]

Looks like your shotgun is patterning very well!
Nimrod

 

[cwinner]

Looks like your shotgun is patterning very well!
Nimrod

Thats what Im concerned about, here's a target of how it notmally shoots with my 180gr TTSX load.......I'm just looking for something different in the 230's....I shot some in the wind a couple months ago the their higher BC makes a huge difference. I'm hoping to find an accurate combination for them in this rifle, but am not too sure that this combination is going to work.

 

[Broz]

Cwinner, we found an accuracy node about 94.5 gr in a factory barreled Accumark 30-378 with the 230 OTM's.

As far as your patterning rifle, it looks like the evils of the Barnes solids in a high velocty rifle to me. I would plan a long session with BoreTech eliniator and CU+2 and a lot of patches if it were me. And that is the only cleaner I would trust.

Jeff

 

[elkaholic]

+1 on Brozs' suggestion.....Rich

 

[cwinner]

Thanks for the cleaning advice but I 99% sure that's not the issue. I tried H1000 a couple years ago and found that my rifle liked Retumbo better... I'm going to re run this test with it this weekend and see if I get better results. I had a good load with it and the 230's and just wanted to see if they worked for me like others have found.

The weird thing we all the horisontal stringing between powder increases.. I'm used to vertical in a ladder test. Plus the three sighters of 94.5 H1000 shot just over 1 MOA before I started????

 

[elkaholic]

Thanks for the cleaning advice but I 99% sure that's not the issue. I tried H1000 a couple years ago and found that my rifle liked Retumbo better... I'm going to re run this test with it this weekend and see if I get better results. I had a good load with it and the 230's and just wanted to see if they worked for me like others have found.

The weird thing we all the horisontal stringing between powder increases.. I'm used to vertical in a ladder test. Plus the three sighters of 94.5 H1000 shot just over 1 MOA before I started????

That is pretty strange shooting moa with basically the same load and then stringing like that? I think I might be checking scope, screws, etc. to see if something is amiss?.....Rich

 

[Broz]

That is pretty strange shooting moa with basically the same load and then stringing like that? I think I might be checking scope, screws, etc. to see if something is amiss?.....Rich

I agree with this. I was thinking the same thing. But I would also clean with BoreTech. Maybe that is because I use to shoot TSX's in 30-378 accumark and it fouled so bad it took 3 sessions of clean and shoot to get it back to a solid 3/4 moa rifle. The rifle was sending them very fast and that is badd juju for coppers in my opinion.

Jeff

 

[cwinner]

Ok, just to update this thread.....I shot a ladder with RETUMBO and 230's a weekend ago with similar dismal results to the H1000. See below but lots of horizontal stringing, this time to the right but nothing really jumped out. I still think it's kind of wierd and was thinking my barrel may be giving it up as I am getting close to 1000rds through it now or my scope had developed some internal problems so I went back out yesterday and fired three shot groups at 100yds to verify everything was fine ( The Rifle is sighted in with the 180TTSX @ 200yds) and it still shoots the TTSX's very well. I think I am going to focus on the new 200 LRX bullet even though it's BC is not as high and will have to try again with the 230's. I having a 300 Win re-barreled now and throated for them so I'll save my remaining stock to run down that tube as my Wby does not seem to like them.

 

[elkaholic]

Ok, just to update this thread.....I shot a ladder with RETUMBO and 230's a weekend ago with similar dismal results to the H1000. See below but lots of horizontal stringing, this time to the right but nothing really jumped out. I still think it's kind of wierd and was thinking my barrel may be giving it up as I am getting close to 1000rds through it now or my scope had developed some internal problems so I went back out yesterday and fired three shot groups at 100yds to verify everything was fine ( The Rifle is sighted in with the 180TTSX @ 200yds) and it still shoots the TTSX's very well. I think I am going to focus on the new 200 LRX bullet even though it's BC is not as high and will have to try again with the 230's. I having a 300 Win re-barreled now and throated for them so I'll save my remaining stock to run down that tube as my Wby does not seem to like them.

You might try adjusting your seating depth and see what happens? I don't think your barrel is toast when it groups the Barnes that way.....Rich

 

[kermodie]

shots 5,6,7,8,and 9 form a rough circle.
shots 11 thru 15 form a larger circle.
I think your just seeing barrel whip here?

shots 13 and 14 look promissing. I would retry those combinations again.

I assume that was also shot at 200 yrds.

 

[trebark]

For an alternative theory, what's the twist rate in your barrel? Hopefully it is 1:10. If it is not, you may have a bullet stability issue.

 

[WildRose]

For an alternative theory, what's the twist rate in your barrel? Hopefully it is 1:10. If it is not, you may have a bullet stability issue.

Exactly what I was thinking... .

For whatever set of reasons this particular rifle just may not like anything over 200gr's.

If it were me I think I'd try to load up maybe ten each of a couple of other high BC bullets in the 200-210gr range and see how those compare.

There's enough of us on here shooting various weight 30's in high BC bullets I'm sure he could get a handful of bullets for the asking to experiment with.

 

[cwinner]

Good thought on the barrel twist.... It got me thinking so I just measured it with the old tight patch on the cleaning rod method and I get an average of 10.5". I just assumed as its a stock rifle it was a 10" twist....might be on to something here.

As for the shots 13&14, those were the best I saw too and the three shot group was with them @ 102.8 gr. on the right, it's not bad at just over 1 MOA and I would have been happy 20 years ago but I'm wanting better nowadays.

I have had fairly good success with the 210 VLD's in the past and was just wanting to e experiment with the 230's as they really buck the wind much better than either of the TTSX loads I currently have.

I'm happy with the 180 TTSX load for my urrent hunting needs but also enjoy having more than one good load worked up for a particular rifle!

Thanks for all the suggestions!!