I just tried to load my first round today. I tumbled,resized the cases, tumbled then primed. I made a dummy round for my COAL. Tried to chamber the round but the bolt is extemely hard to close. I have checked all the cases and compared to new unfired,fired, and resized. I don't see any issues after I put the caliper to everything. The cartridge is 22/250. Rifle: Savage. I have used this action to swap with other barrels. Never had an issue with any factory rounds. Where do I look? Thanks for any help!!!
New to the Game. Need help with resizing issue!!
- Thread starter gsayl001
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D.ID
Well-Known Member
Stiff or "extremely hard to close" ?............. How much shoulder bump?....... how much of the neck shows sines of sizing?............. Full length or neck sizing?........... Crimped?........... How did you establish coal?.......... How much expansion at the base of the fired cases? .................................... One possibility if it was crimped =two long oal jamming the bullet or you may need a small base die. More info will help diagnose the problem.
Extremely hard to close. I full length resized the cases. I used the COAL from my loading data and compared factory cases as well to make sure I had some parameters to go by. I can chamber a fired empty case and a factory cartridge with no problem. I can't chamber an empty resized case- no bullet. So I figured it was something in my resize set up. Sorry I can't give you alot better info.'I have to study what you are asking a bit to understand. I'm trying. Thanks for your help.
D.ID
Well-Known Member
No sweat, we all have to start somewhere and we have all bean there. Sounds like your right to suspect your sizing die if you can not chamber a resized case with no bullet. Measure your case width just above the base and across the neck before and after sizing if any thing gets bigger back your die off a couple turns to get by with and start shopping for a new sizing die. There are defective dies out there but they are rare.
Your full length die may not be set up correctly. When the case enters the die the sides of the case contact the side of the die first. Just like squeezing a tube of tooth paste the brass has to go somewhere and it will flow toward the shoulder lengthening the headspace of the case. Try adjusting it with a cam-over, ie screw the die down until it makes contact with the shellholder, back the ram off and then screw the die down another 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn or as much cam-over as possible. Size a case and try it in your chamber. If the case fits then back the die off to your original position and then keep adjusting the die down in small increments until your bolt handle will close without resistance.
Ok....the resized cases are averaging .012 longer than the fired unsized brass. You may be on to something. I'll try it. Would the barrel swap affect it enough to cause a problem ? I used "go" and "no go" gauges. I checked it again with the go gauge and it has more resistance than a factory round.nothing serious but noticeable.
Are you lubing inside the case necks a bit? Or at least brushing them out nice a clean?
Sounds like you may be pulling the shoulder forward when you pull the case out of the die.
How easily is the case coming back out of the die? It shouldn't be a tug of war to get it out... lube the case necks very, very lightly on the inside and see if that helps.
Dan
Yes I have been lubeing the cases. They come out relatively easy. Definitely not a tug of war. I just got 20 cases to close in the bolt alot easier....still tight but a big improvement . I screwed the die up a couple turns then worked a couple each time then testing in my gun. Die has to be about 1/4-1/2 above the shell holder- not touching. Real tight sweet spot. Thanks for the good ideas. I think they will work now but I want to try another die or let someone else size a few for me to see what the difference is. I am using Hornady dies.
Die is not set up proper,read your die instructions or a manual.The die should always touch for full size or using a adjustable shell holder kit.As posted earlier die should touch or cam over,this keeps it more consistent on sizing, die up in relationship you describe would be neck sizing or partial neck
As earlier posted, you are not full length sizing. You are partial sizing and need to set the shoulder on the brass back a couple thousandths at least in order to be able to close the bolt without trouble. You need to screw the die down a quarter of a turn at a time until the bolt closes reasonably.
Yes, I understand. I started out full length resizing but couldnt get bolt to close without excessive effort. I backed the die off 2-3'turns and improved but not as much as needed or at least would like to feel comfortable. You got to be right about the shoulder. Everything esle checks out good, the length, the base of the case. It's all new to me.....frustrating too.
bowhunthard88
Well-Known Member
Why do you have to full length resize with a full length die? I measure off the datum line of my cartridges, and only bump my shoulder back about 0.0005 - 0.001" with my FL dies. I can also put a 1/8" washer between the press and die (once the die is set up correctly, to my specs) and then I'm technically only neck sizing...
No offense meant, just curious. Thanks.
You dont,read the posts,this guy is ata beginner stage, and has brass,sounds like barely fit chamber or not. I have neck dies,bushing dies,full,etc.I load as you suggested,and have tools to measure. I dont believe OP,HAS THIS KNOWLEDGE. When the press does not have a positive stop,usually the sizing accuracy is off some,or more or less lube, speed of press stroke.If you check every case you know this and it is hard to get consistent,That is why they make a shell holder kit with varing thickness bases for that purpose.The press flex is not as repeatable , as when taken to a positive stop.The brass varies as you can feel the difference when sizing.
boomtube
Well-Known Member
"You need to screw the die down a quarter of a turn at a time until the bolt closes reasonably."
Goodness. A quarter turn at a time? The full range of headspace, minimum to maximum, for bottle neck cartridges is usually around 6 thou. Turning any die down a single 1/4 turn potentially moves the shoulder almost 16 thou, nearly three times the full range. That's a MASSIVE die change, it's sure not a tweak. We need to adjust our dies to accomplish what we need, not follow some pre-set rule.
Ideas of reading and following sizing die set-up instructions to be sure to 'get it right' are hopeless; die makers can't possibly tell us how to accommidate the flex in every press ever made nor know the actual size of our chamber nor the degree of springback of our cases. Thus, written instuctions simply get us into the ball park, most of us will then need to do a few die tweaks with our own press to actually get it right for each chamber.
The most common cause of difficult chambering is failure to set the shoulders back enough. It's quite easy to fix and rarely requires any new dies. Getting a sizer adjusted right simply demands we 'turn and try' until the sized cases will fully chamber with no more than a touch of resistance. OR use one of the case 'headspace' measureing tools to set up the sizer. Either way, there is no need to set shoulders back any further than the longest fired length, they have expanded to fit the chamber and sprang back a thou or two already. And the shell holders made by Redding prevent excessive shoulder set back, they do NOT allow more set-back to provide easier chambering.
Given the normal case-by-case variations in brass springback, anyone striving to set a sizer for a certain length, plus or minus a thou, is going to quicky learn it can't be done; most shoulder springback will vary 2 or 3 thou. That's fine so long as the longest FL sized cases don't exceed the longest fired cases. Fergit any "averageing" in this, we have to chamber each round as it is, not by what the average shoulder length is.
Lubing inside a neck is to ease removal of the expander plug, not to prevent case stretch. It is rare for any dry expander to actually stretch a shoulder or neck, the soft/thin brass of the neck will easily give way to the expander long before the harder/thicker shoulder moves.
Goodness. A quarter turn at a time? The full range of headspace, minimum to maximum, for bottle neck cartridges is usually around 6 thou. Turning any die down a single 1/4 turn potentially moves the shoulder almost 16 thou, nearly three times the full range. That's a MASSIVE die change, it's sure not a tweak. We need to adjust our dies to accomplish what we need, not follow some pre-set rule.
Ideas of reading and following sizing die set-up instructions to be sure to 'get it right' are hopeless; die makers can't possibly tell us how to accommidate the flex in every press ever made nor know the actual size of our chamber nor the degree of springback of our cases. Thus, written instuctions simply get us into the ball park, most of us will then need to do a few die tweaks with our own press to actually get it right for each chamber.
The most common cause of difficult chambering is failure to set the shoulders back enough. It's quite easy to fix and rarely requires any new dies. Getting a sizer adjusted right simply demands we 'turn and try' until the sized cases will fully chamber with no more than a touch of resistance. OR use one of the case 'headspace' measureing tools to set up the sizer. Either way, there is no need to set shoulders back any further than the longest fired length, they have expanded to fit the chamber and sprang back a thou or two already. And the shell holders made by Redding prevent excessive shoulder set back, they do NOT allow more set-back to provide easier chambering.
Given the normal case-by-case variations in brass springback, anyone striving to set a sizer for a certain length, plus or minus a thou, is going to quicky learn it can't be done; most shoulder springback will vary 2 or 3 thou. That's fine so long as the longest FL sized cases don't exceed the longest fired cases. Fergit any "averageing" in this, we have to chamber each round as it is, not by what the average shoulder length is.
Lubing inside a neck is to ease removal of the expander plug, not to prevent case stretch. It is rare for any dry expander to actually stretch a shoulder or neck, the soft/thin brass of the neck will easily give way to the expander long before the harder/thicker shoulder moves.
