1000 yrd qualification

[ballistx]

The gun club I belong to has a requirement to qualify on the 1000 yard range due to their insurance requirements. I have done a fair amount of long range field shooting but not at a formal range at 1000 yards.

I have 3 rifles that I am considering. All are standard, thin barrel hunting rifles in the 1" to 1.5" range. They are a 25-06, 270, & 30-06. All are old Rem 700's. I use 100, 130 & 165 Nosler Partitions for hunting (Oryx this fall) so have matched that in a SPBT in Sierra for my work up and practice loads. Those are the bullets that I would plan on using for the qualifications.

I have a couple of questions.

1. Is there any significant reason for using one over the other? When I run the ballistics there really isn't much difference in the down range performance for paper.

2. Is it practical to use a hunting scope (without the target turrets) in 1000 yard shooting? I understand we will start at the 300 yards (which I am sighted in for anyway, well 265) and work our way back to the 1000. I don't think they have any hold over markers so I presume that we will have to adjust the scope for the drop at the range shot.

The requirement is 10 shots at 1000 yards, all in the burm and 6 in the paper. If any hit in front of the burn you are disqualified. That makes me very apprehensive of using hold over without having a definate hold over marker.

Any helpful hints for a novice, beginner will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[roninflag]

what scopes? are the triggers adjusted?? i would shoot the 30-06 . i would use either a 175 berger or a 190 matchking or berger and i would use lapua brass, h-4350 or varget and i would drive as fast as i could within pressure and safety limiits. the scope is going to need a lot of adjustment. does your scope have the ability to be adjusted to hit 18 inches high at 100 yards??

 

[BuckSnort]

I wouldn't try it until you get a scope with turrets...

 

[Strider]

I am no expert, but I shoot a 1,000 yard course once a month with similar equipment (i.e. scope hunting rifles in STW and .300 WSM). I can shoot under 3-inch group pretty routinely at 500 yards, but things get iffy real fast after that. The course we shoot is 100-yard increments from 200 out to 1,000. I have come ot the point where I don't shoot past 700 yards. I can't reliably stay on the paper beyond 800. The reason is I don't shoot high BC bullets so wind drift gets exponentially crazy, and I have a calibrated reticle out to 700 yards but I don't have "adjustable turrets".

As stated above, you really need Bergers or other hi-BC bullets at that range. Without hi-BC bullets and adjustable turrets, you will have so much holdover you won't have a reliable aiming reference. The calibers don't matter so much in and of themselves, but the .30 should have higher BC bullets avaialble if your rifle has enough twist to shoot them. HTH.

 

[ballistx]

At this point I am not trying to make score or set up for regular shooting. Just to get through the qualification. The reason is that I want to use the 600 yard portion for practicing for the Oryx hunt this fall. Don't plan to shoot that far but it is a once in a lifetime hunt. 300 yards is the maximum range except for the 1000 yard course.

Since I already have loads worked up for the above listed, I will use one of those. My leaning has been for the 270 as that is what I plan to hunt the Oryx with. Right now I have it set up with a 6x24 that has enough adjustment to get to the 1000. But since they are all long action 700's with Redfield mounts, I can readily change them over with minimal sight in effort.

I have some el-cheapo 6x18 and 4x16 scopes, with turrets, that I could use. Finances don't permit me to get another scope just for this, so I am limited by what I have. I have an old 2x7 acurange on the 30-06, a 3x9 redfield on the 25-06 and the 6x24 on the 270 for the 1000 yard range.

 

[Strider]

Your reason for shooting the 1k sounds exactly like mine.

Regardless of what you have, if you can get it adjusted properly for 1k the scope should work. Magnification isn't a huge issue if hitting paper is what you are after, but at 12 and 16 power, that target looks small at 1k to me. What you have should work though.

The hi-BC bullets are really important IMHO. If you have some ballistic software, try running a hunting bullet and a berger at 1k and look at the difference in drift. It is amazing at that distance. Where I shoot, the winds are shifty and tough to read. But even at 5 mph in shifting winds, hitting paper at 1k is a challenge with my Barnes. If you can't or don't want to do the hi-BC load change, I would try and shoot on a really calm day.

I encourage you to go for it though. It paid off for me this past year. I was able to drop and make a 538 shot with about 15 seconds to deploy the bipod, prep, calc, and fire. I was less then an inch off my POI. I could have never done that without all the practice and confidence the 1k gave me.

 

[WildRose]

At this point I am not trying to make score or set up for regular shooting. Just to get through the qualification. The reason is that I want to use the 600 yard portion for practicing for the Oryx hunt this fall. Don't plan to shoot that far but it is a once in a lifetime hunt. 300 yards is the maximum range except for the 1000 yard course.

Since I already have loads worked up for the above listed, I will use one of those. My leaning has been for the 270 as that is what I plan to hunt the Oryx with. Right now I have it set up with a 6x24 that has enough adjustment to get to the 1000. But since they are all long action 700's with Redfield mounts, I can readily change them over with minimal sight in effort.

I have some el-cheapo 6x18 and 4x16 scopes, with turrets, that I could use. Finances don't permit me to get another scope just for this, so I am limited by what I have. I have an old 2x7 acurange on the 30-06, a 3x9 redfield on the 25-06 and the 6x24 on the 270 for the 1000 yard range.

Are any of your scope mil dot scopes?

Have you shot any of them at 1000yds so far?

Your 0-6 with High BC bullets by far is going to be the one that the ballistics tables says is the best of the three IF you use the Hi BC VLD bullets.

If I read your first post correctly though none of the three are shooting sub MOA as they are set up now and with the ammo you have, so I'd say your odds of being successful without accurizing the rifles, maybe some trigger work, definitely better ammo and getting some practice are fairly slim.

Life beyond 600yds gets extremely complicated and tolerances become razor thin. If you are not set up properly hitting 60% and NOT having any shots fall short is going to be an uphill task at best.

 

[ballistx]

At 69 years young, I can't remember anything that wasn't uphill, so the terrain is familiar.

The date is esablished (May 1), so we take the wind we get. Meet at 7AM so that is the quietest part of the day. Don't know how many others there will be but would guess maybe 10?

I am somewhat familiar with ballistics software as I developed an extensive external ballistics program that was used & sold internationally in the 80's (prior to Windows). It was used in Virginia and White Sands by the military and made available through Chrony with their chronograph. The military said it was the most accurate of anything available to them at that time. Hence the handle "Ballistx" which was the name of the program, as it couldn't be more than 8 characters long and work in DOS.

But I didn't have a 1000 yard range available to do any actual range work. However, I have taken a few 1 shot kills on deer in excess of 600 yards. That was with the 06 and the 2x7 Redfield with the accurange.

Fortunately this isn't a once-in-a-lifetime chance to qualify. Just need to pick the best options I have on the equipment I have now. And all this info certainly helps. So, Thanks MUCH for the input.

Ballistx

 

[roninflag]

Ballis- the three are real close balistically with the nosler partitions. one of the great great hunting bullets. for most target shooting they are not concentric as a match bullet. it is geometric ; 1000 yards is a long ways. shoot a 115 berger in the 25-06, or a 115 balistic tip; a 130 balistic tip ; or 135 match king in the 270; or the one of the ones i mentioned in the 30-06. if you don't reload ; you need still should shoot one of these from a factory load. what scopes on each? have the triggers been adjusted? easily done google "remington crisp". are you hunting in new mexico?? from new mexico?

 

[WildRose]

Ballis- the three are real close balistically with the nosler partitions. one of the great great hunting bullets. for most target shooting they are not concentric as a match bullet. it is geometric ; 1000 yards is a long ways. shoot a 115 berger in the 25-06, or a 115 balistic tip; a 130 balistic tip ; or 135 match king in the 270; or the one of the ones i mentioned in the 30-06. if you don't reload ; you need still should shoot one of these from a factory load. what scopes on each? have the triggers been adjusted? easily done google "remington crisp". are you hunting in new mexico?? from new mexico?

If he's going to go with factory Ammo I'd suggest Wincherster Supremes and Hornady.

I've had great luck with both. It all depends on what his bbl likes best.

 

[Topshot]

The first thing you should do is dial up on your elevation turrets with each scope to see how much "up" elevation you have left from your normal zero distance.

Then run the numbers through a ballistic calculator to see what is required to get the job done out to 1000.

You will soon work out if it is possible with the scopes that you have.

If your scope has enough travel, shooting out to 1000 in 100 yard increments is quite easy, so dont stress over it. Its fun.

 

[sp6x6]

Are you going to be able to test your load at range before or not? I have had custom turrets made by leupold that where way off at 1000. That was with todays best eguipment to work with. Just because a ballistic program says a drop doesnt mean its right, it usually is'nt and needs to be field verified, for sure at 1000.A though I was busting rocks yesterday out to 1016 and my intial dope seemed to be on, which is rare for me.

 

[ballistx]

I have worked up reloads for all three using the Sierra boat tail bullets and that is what I will be using. The 25-06 is a little more accurate than the 270 (.75 vs 1 at 100 yds). The 6x24 scope has the range with some to spare. I haven't tried the other 2 that are in the 4x16 and 6x18 but would guess they do.

We will be moving back from 600, 800, 900 & 1000 so there will be a chance to verify and compensate for the tracking errors. Don't get disqualified for short shots until the qualifying 10 rounds.

The scopes don't have mil-dots.

I am leaning towards the 25-06 as it is lighter recoil and I know that it is good with the rounds I have worked up. Will just need to make up my mind and switch the scopes if that is what I decide.

I won't be using the partitions for this, just for hunting when the time comes. And that I have decided will definately be the 270.

I have rung it out on my ballistics program. If the muzzle velocity is correct, I have 100% confidence in the trajectory being accurate. That program was rung out by the 50 caliber shooters association back in the 80's out to 1500 yards and at all elevations. They said it was the only one that confirmed their actual findings relative to elevation. And we are at about 5,500 ft elevation at the gun club.

I am currently in Albuquerque and will be shooting about 20 miles NW of Albuquerque and hunting Oryx on the Stallion Range the end of September.

I don't have the time to set up the chronograph and develop loads before the qualifications, so will go with the ones I have and have range trajectories for already. I always have them taped to the side of the rifle ahead of the trigger for instant confirmation when hunting.

I will have to decide this evening on the scope situation as tomorrow is the only time I can actually get out to the range and run them out to 300 yards to make sure they are on there. Just need to determine now if it will be the 270 or 25-06 as primary and will take the other, with the required 100 rounds, along JIC. Always like to have a backup.

Thanks again for all of the input.

 

[WildRose]

I have worked up reloads for all three using the Sierra boat tail bullets and that is what I will be using. The 25-06 is a little more accurate than the 270 (.75 vs 1 at 100 yds). The 6x24 scope has the range with some to spare. I haven't tried the other 2 that are in the 4x16 and 6x18 but would guess they do.

We will be moving back from 600, 800, 900 & 1000 so there will be a chance to verify and compensate for the tracking errors. Don't get disqualified for short shots until the qualifying 10 rounds.

The scopes don't have mil-dots.

I am leaning towards the 25-06 as it is lighter recoil and I know that it is good with the rounds I have worked up. Will just need to make up my mind and switch the scopes if that is what I decide.

I won't be using the partitions for this, just for hunting when the time comes. And that I have decided will definately be the 270.

I have rung it out on my ballistics program. If the muzzle velocity is correct, I have 100% confidence in the trajectory being accurate. That program was rung out by the 50 caliber shooters association back in the 80's out to 1500 yards and at all elevations. They said it was the only one that confirmed their actual findings relative to elevation. And we are at about 5,500 ft elevation at the gun club.

I am currently in Albuquerque and will be shooting about 20 miles NW of Albuquerque and hunting Oryx on the Stallion Range the end of September.

I don't have the time to set up the chronograph and develop loads before the qualifications, so will go with the ones I have and have range trajectories for already. I always have them taped to the side of the rifle ahead of the trigger for instant confirmation when hunting.

I will have to decide this evening on the scope situation as tomorrow is the only time I can actually get out to the range and run them out to 300 yards to make sure they are on there. Just need to determine now if it will be the 270 or 25-06 as primary and will take the other, with the required 100 rounds, along JIC. Always like to have a backup.

Thanks again for all of the input.

The value of an accurate weapon with which you have good accuracy, lots of experience, and absolute confidence can never be over state.

One thing. You will find that there are an enormous number of better bullets than the Nozler Partition for long range accuracy. With the flat base and odd sectional density they are very high drag, and tend to get very squirrely (read unpredictable) beyond about 750yds. Perfectly adequate for things like Elk but for smaller species I can give you a list of at least twenty better bullets beyond that range.