7mm SAUM & Forester Dies

[belthazar48]

Hello All,
Great web site!I'm a newbie, but not to reloading. Just bought a set of Forester BR dies for my Rem 700x7mmSAUM. Previously, I have always used RCBS, but since the Foresters were on sale and I've heard a lot of good about them, I thought I would give them a try.
I usually scrounge brass from the local range; picked up 18 once-fired rem 7mmsaums and ran them through the FL sizer as per Forester directions.With the die just touching shell-holder, I cannot close bolt on an empty case in the 700. Tried 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 & 1 full turn more progressivly, and can finally get bolt to close, but with effort.
I have yet to fire a round in the gun(to much snow at the range), and I wanted to load up some sight-in rounds and not waste a bunch of expensive preloads.
Your thoughts. Thanks

 

[Trickymissfit]

Hello All,
Great web site!I'm a newbie, but not to reloading. Just bought a set of Forester BR dies for my Rem 700x7mmSAUM. Previously, I have always used RCBS, but since the Foresters were on sale and I've heard a lot of good about them, I thought I would give them a try.
I usually scrounge brass from the local range; picked up 18 once-fired rem 7mmsaums and ran them through the FL sizer as per Forester directions.With the die just touching shell-holder, I cannot close bolt on an empty case in the 700. Tried 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 & 1 full turn more progressivly, and can finally get bolt to close, but with effort.
I have yet to fire a round in the gun(to much snow at the range), and I wanted to load up some sight-in rounds and not waste a bunch of expensive preloads.
Your thoughts. Thanks

Have you tried to chamber a factory loaded round in the gun? If it will chamber, then the die is slightly long (maybe .045"). But if the factory load is tight; your chamber is probably on the minimum side (if not very slightly undersize by a few thousandths of an inch. Eitherway a few thousandths on the bottom of the die will fix this. I had to do this with a Redding 22-250AI die once (this was not Redding's fault by the way). I simply chucked the die in a lathe, and shaved the bottom about .03", and the polished out the lip slightly. You'll probably want a ceramic or diamond insert by the way. I've also shortened dies in a surface grinder a few times, and even went so far as to build a threaded block to hold it in place.
gary

 

[boomtube]

"Tried 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 & 1 full turn more progressivly, and can finally get bolt to close, but with effort."

Goodness! A full die turn = almost 72 thousants. The normal full range of a bottle neck chamber's headspace is only about 6 thou. Hard to accept that you had to go that far below shell holder contact to get the bolt to close; something is BAD wrong with your FL sizer die!

In fact, it's hard to understand how you could even fully raise the ram with the die a full turn passed shell holder contact; what kind of press are you using?

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

Adjusting a sizing die past contact with the shell holder is usually done to compensate for press frame flexing, or "spring" once the press is under load (with a real, unsized case being forced into the die). Most O-frame presses have significantly more flex than does the Forster Co-Ax, for which Forster's die instructions are written.

Andy

 

[Trickymissfit]

Adjusting a sizing die past contact with the shell holder is usually done to compensate for press frame flexing, or "spring" once the press is under load (with a real, unsized case being forced into the die). Most O-frame presses have significantly more flex than does the Forster Co-Ax, for which Forster's die instructions are written.

Andy

I doubt the die is .070" to .080" too long. I'd be checking the chamber headspace verses the the specs on the drawings. To take this a step further, I've never had to actually ever make contact with the case holder jaws with a die in a Forster press on anything unless the chamber was cut a little short. One extra turn on the die and yet still not locking everything up tells me the press is flexing all over the place. Those big cases take much more pressure to size than something like a 30-06 or 22-250. Wonder whatkind press is being used?

Of course the rifle being a Remington; that's the first place I'd check! They are not known for quality controll over there. Yet it's possible I guess that the die is a little too long, but I'd almost bet the farm it's elsewhere. My guess is that the chamber is on the factory minimum headspace is not a few thousandths shorter. And then take in some flex from the press and shell holder being on the long side makes it so you can't quite get there. I'd find somebody close by with a Rockchucker or a Co-Ax and start all over to see if that makes a difference. If not, you have a choice of shaving the end of the die, or send it back to Forster. Be nice to have a headspace gauge to see what the chamber is actually like before going anyfurther
gary

 

[belthazar48]

Factory ammo fits a bit snug, sorta like a twice fired neck sized only like fit. Used an RS RCBS alum. "O" frame in my 1st post, and yes it was not a full 360 turn and yes there was plenty of frame flex going on.
Switched over to my RCBS JR cast Iron "O" frame, after taking in all that was said.
Fired a half dozen reloads and 3 factory loads, after mounting a scope and bore sighting(more on that later). Very pleased with the 100 yd results of the 3 Rem 160grNosPart. The first time I have had a group I could cover with a quarter with a rifle from Big Green, right out of the box.
Anyway, brought all the empties home and tried to resize, just touching the shell holder, and still cannot close bolt. Put a felt tip mark on the die(don't want to be caught with my pants down again) and tried 1/8 more with slight improvement and then tried 1/4 turn more and bingo!
So that is where I am going to leave it, for hunting anyway. I may do just neck sizing for target shooting.Thanks to all for you timely comments.

I borrowed an SLC (?) laser boresighter from a friend as indicated above. Pretty simple directions and implimentation, but worked like a charm, with only a slight adjustment necessary at 100yds. Vast improvement over the old bushnell system.

 

[Trickymissfit]

Factory ammo fits a bit snug, sorta like a twice fired neck sized only like fit. Used an RS RCBS alum. "O" frame in my 1st post, and yes it was not a full 360 turn and yes there was plenty of frame flex going on.
Switched over to my RCBS JR cast Iron "O" frame, after taking in all that was said.
Fired a half dozen reloads and 3 factory loads, after mounting a scope and bore sighting(more on that later). Very pleased with the 100 yd results of the 3 Rem 160grNosPart. The first time I have had a group I could cover with a quarter with a rifle from Big Green, right out of the box.
Anyway, brought all the empties home and tried to resize, just touching the shell holder, and still cannot close bolt. Put a felt tip mark on the die(don't want to be caught with my pants down again) and tried 1/8 more with slight improvement and then tried 1/4 turn more and bingo!
So that is where I am going to leave it, for hunting anyway. I may do just neck sizing for target shooting.Thanks to all for you timely comments.

I borrowed an SLC (?) laser boresighter from a friend as indicated above. Pretty simple directions and implimentation, but worked like a charm, with only a slight adjustment necessary at 100yds. Vast improvement over the old bushnell system.

I highly recommend you take one case that fits exactly as you want it (I like a very slight bit of resistence just before the bolt is fully closed). Drill out the primer pocket, and keep it as a master for your proper headspace. Also I'd buy the Hornaday case measuring outfit that works with a pair of calipers and a modified case. This will help you setup the correct overall length and the correct datum line to set you dies up. There is actually two different outfits here, and one is for bullet seating, and the other is for setting up the sizing die to fit your chamber. Both are highly recommended!
gary

 

[Innovative]

belthazar48 .....

If your symptom reoccurs ... it's best to determine exactly why your handloads don't fit. Felt tip pens and 1/8 turns on your die height don't count.

You need to know the chamber clearance "at the shoulder" to see if it's because of case length (at the shoulder) or case width (above the web).

There are a few different comparators on the market. I use the Digital Headspace Gauge, because it works on ALL calibers without using specual bushings or extra attachments. You don't need to be concerned with specific cartridge measurements or the datum line. What you need is to see is ONLY the actual clearance "at the shoulder" that YOUR handloads have in YOUR particular chamber.

This is done by comparing one of your handloads to one of your fired cases. This shows you how to accurately set your die height - without guessing.