Something is crooked...

[cross]

Something is crooked….

I have a Win Model 70 Classic in .338 Winchester. As it sits in it's factory Tupperware stock, the barrel is slightly canted toward the right side of the stock. It's been pillar bedded and free floated so it doesn't touch but the barrel does not sit straight in the barrel channel. I didn't worry about this. It shoots fairly well and I figured that I just happened to get a crooked stock. Life goes on.

However, twice since owning this rifle, I've had in my possession H-S Precision LA Winchester stocks for this rifle and both times the barrel pointing out the right side of the barrel channel was much more pronounced than in the Tupperware factory stock. Not just slightly, like you really had to pay attention but enough so that you knew it the instant you looked at it or sighted down the rifle. If I were not a loony I probably would go about my life and leave well enough alone. But….that's not the case, I'm starting to plan some mods for this thing and am worried that the action may be less than adequate.

What, in your estimation (experience) is the problem? Is there something crooked about the action (recoil lugs, etc?). Does the action need to be refaced square to the axis of the action? Or is the barrel shank cut crooked and shows this once tightened? Or is it something else?

 

[Derek M.]

I've read about this before. I've also heard a variety of reasons, from, it's supposed to be that way for a right handed shooter due to the way the rifle is held, to: the action/barrel are not trued. If you would like to save money, leave it alone since you said it shoots "fairly well."

A rifle that shoots fairly well is not good enough for me, however. If you wish to invest some money into the rifle, I recommend a new barrel and send the thing to one of the gunsmiths here on this site who are VERY comfortable working on Winchester rifles and have them work over the action and install a new custom bbl on it, and might as well add a quality stock to it too.

Something is crooked…

Yes, its called the current US government administration.

 

[cross]

I've read about this before. I've also heard a variety of reasons, from, it's supposed to be that way for a right handed shooter due to the way the rifle is held, to: the action/barrel are not trued. If you would like to save money, leave it alone since you said it shoots "fairly well."

A rifle that shoots fairly well is not good enough for me, however. If you wish to invest some money into the rifle, I recommend a new barrel and send the thing to one of the gunsmiths here on this site who are VERY comfortable working on Winchester rifles and have them work over the action and install a new custom bbl on it, and might as well add a quality stock to it too.

Yes, its called the current US government administration.

Thanks Derek, I'm pretty much in the fairly well isn't good enough category but this is still pretty much a factory rifle so my expectations aren't too high for it. I though about adding a comment about the government with my crooked comment but was afraid I would spin into a tempest and lose my bearings.

Thanks again,

CRoss

 

[BountyHunter]

Cross

My bet is it has nothing to do with the barrel, front of the receiver or how it is held.

Probably bedded incorrectly and not straight and has side pressure for sure.

In a correct stress free bedding job, it should be straight and if you place a dial indicator just touching the barrel and then loosen the action screws, you should not get any movement. Movement and you have stress.

Check the bedding job first before you go jumping on a barrel and work and then put it right back in the same bedding.

tupperware stocks are notorius for difficulty in bedding and getting it to stay and not lift up.

BH

 

[Boss Hoss]

Cross

My bet is it has nothing to do with the barrel, front of the receiver or how it is held.

Probably bedded incorrectly and not straight and has side pressure for sure.

In a correct stress free bedding job, it should be straight and if you place a dial indicator just touching the barrel and then loosen the action screws, you should not get any movement. Movement and you have stress.

Check the bedding job first before you go jumping on a barrel and work and then put it right back in the same bedding.

tupperware stocks are notorius for difficulty in bedding and getting it to stay and not lift up.

BH

I agree 100%-----inletting is the problem. Very common on mass produced guns or from folks who do not know what they are doing.

 

[Derek M.]

Thanks Derek, I'm pretty much in the fairly well isn't good enough category but this is still pretty much a factory rifle so my expectations aren't too high for it. I though about adding a comment about the government with my crooked comment but was afraid I would spin into a tempest and lose my bearings.

Thanks again,

CRoss

I like picking on the administration just for fun. Couldn't help it with your title.

Send or take it to a qualified gun builder and have them inspect it for you. Depending on what you want to do with this rifle would dictate whether or not you should think about investing more $ into it. I know hunters that own a 338 and strictly use it for close up dangerous and/or big game hunting. If that is the case, then I would leave it alone. Obviously if you want a precision rifle, the current stock has got to go. I'm not a fan of doing a partial or half job to a rifle. I go all out but that is my choice.

I always prefer handlapped barrels, quality stocks, and trued actions built by a gunmaker who knows what they are doing.

 

[shortgrass]

Injection molded plastic (tupperwere) stocks,,,,, "ya' can't make a silk purse from a sows ear!"

 

[Boss Hoss]

Since you brought it up----yes those are throw away.

 

[cross]

I agree 100%-----inletting is the problem. Very common on mass produced guns or from folks who do not know what they are doing.

I would agree with both of you except for in not 1 but (2) TWO H-S Precision stocks the barreled action showed much more propensity to point to the right than in the tupperware stock. This problem is definitly in the steel. I just don't know if it's correctable or not.

Thanks again guys. I read your posts all of the time and you're usually spot on.

CRoss

 

[shortgrass]

In that case, there's no sense in speculating about the problem on a forum. Tear it down for the answer, that's the only way to know. Anything else is just a guess, and I , for one, don't likes "guesses". Facts speak "louder". Winchesters' quality, near the end of their existance, was very poor, could be any number of things wrong.

 

[cross]

In that case, there's no sense in speculating about the problem on a forum. Tear it down for the answer, that's the only way to know. Anything else is just a guess, and I , for one, don't likes "guesses". Facts speak "louder". Winchesters' quality, near the end of their existance, was very poor, could be any number of things wrong.

Thanks Shortgrass. Yes, I'm afraid that a serious diagnosis is going to be required but I'm not a machinist so I don't have a lathe to chuck it in. I'm guessing that would show the problem in short order, however, $$$ are required. I hate parting with $$$!!!

 

[BountyHunter]

I would agree with both of you except for in not 1 but (2) TWO H-S Precision stocks the barreled action showed much more propensity to point to the right than in the tupperware stock. This problem is definitly in the steel. I just don't know if it's correctable or not.

CRoss

suggest you have someone do the stress test check first and look at the bedding block.


My bet is the bedding block is slightly off center, which can be fixed much easier than truing etc

Besides even if you true everything up and then put it back in an off center bedding block, you have fixed nothing but spent alot of money.

It is highly unusual for a barrel/rcvr to be that off center. You would basically have to have the receiver tenon cut way off center and facing the receiver will not fix that.

BH

 

[shortgrass]

suggest you have someone do the stress test check first and look at the bedding block.


My bet is the bedding block is slightly off center, which can be fixed much easier than truing etc

Besides even if you true everything up and then put it back in an off center bedding block, you have fixed nothing but spent alot of money.

It is highly unusual for a barrel/rcvr to be that off center. You would basically have to have the receiver tenon cut way off center and facing the receiver will not fix that.

BH

That's why there are gunsmiths! A good one will look at it all, not just the metal. How many times does someone carry only part or a rifle into my shop telling me what they think is wrong. We've all heard, "Lock, Stock, & Barrel". In modern terms, it's a system, and a good gunsmith knows this. If you've have had it in two H-S Stocks, it's probably not the stock, but, I'd check it anyway. Sorry, costs dollars to have a pro fix problems you can't. Costs dollars to have a mechanic fix your new SUV, a plumber to work on a drain you don't have the time or tools to do, or an electrician to fix a problem so you don't burn your house down. By the way, you want a gunsmith, not just a machinist as a machinist probably won't have an action wrench and a barrel vise. There is much more to being a gunsmith than being a machinist, but it helps if you are.