Reload belted magnum cases 20 times now.

[Innovative]

I have a patented resizing die that was recently advertised in the top 10 shooting magazines. With this die, you can now get up to 20 reloadings from your belted magnum cases instead of just 2 or 3 times. You can see it on a web site that we devoted to this one product. Take a look at www.larrywillis.com and you can also read the article that I wrote about it, for Precision Shooting magazine (Feb issue)

 

[Dave King]

Larry

I was visiting your site yesterday, very interesting system.

 

[jhendri2]

Larry,

See my message posted on 3 Feb. It should be at the bottom of this page.

Jim

 

[Innovative]

Jim,
I just wrote a LONG reply to your question from Feb 3rd and answered the following note from Steve. However, my ISP just pooped out and it went nowhere. The best information on reloading belted magnums anywhere is from my web site at www.larrywillis.com You can read the entire article (with pictures and all) that I wrote for Precision Shooting (Feb issue) that will answer any question about why our die is required with belted magnums. Anyone can email me at [email protected] and get a much faster answer.

Larry A. Willis

 

[PAWildcatter]

Larry,

How about some sample/trial dies for some of the users of the site?

 

[Innovative]

Mark,
I wish that I could afford to give out free dies. These dies are extremely expensive to make and the price has to be firm for this reason. These dies are twice as hard as conventional dies and tolerances are machined to .0002" on CNC lathes. It's not hard to pay for itself when you can load your cases 20 times each. This one die & collet works on all belted magnums (except 224,240,378 and 460 Wby) and the top of the case serves as a belted magnum case width gauge. That's not bad performance from onetool. Read about it here:web page

[ 04-01-2002: Message edited by: Len Backus ]

 

[Brent]

Larry,
I've never had a problem loading any belted 338wm, 416wby or 300wm MANY more than 2 or 3 times.

I just don't see the need. Am I the exception?

Seriously, I thought by your topic you were just getting a few more loadings than I am so I figured I'd see how. I load mine pretty hot and figured I could get more if I wanted to back down some.

The cases that cost me the most, the 416wby, you can't help with anyway.

First time I heard people having trouble with belted cases was a couple months ago, and this die was mentioned in the same article, selling it almost. Other than that I've heard of no problems concerning case life. People FL sizing I suspect IS the problem.

 

[Innovative]

Brent,
The most common problem with reloading belted magnums is when people adjust their resizing die down against the shell holder. This pushes the shoulder back and headspaces on the belt. This will split cases and shorten case life for sure. I have talked to many shooters that thought doing this would make their cartridge smaller so that they would chamber better. (They've found out that it doesn't work). Try this test using just "one" case: Reload a new case, fire it, reload it, and measure the area "just above" the belt. Then repeat the process again and again until the case won't chamber. You will find that every time that you measure the case, it has increased in diameter, in the web area, until it won't chamber. The reason that a conventional resizing die can't properly resize belted cases is this: In order to resize any given area on any case, you must press the die "slightly" below that area. Because when the case is withdrawn, it "springs back" a little bit. As long as a conventional resizing die has to stop at the belt .... it will never be able to fully reduce the case diameter "just above" the belt. Take a look at my web site www.larrywillis.com where you can see the article that I wrote for Precision Shooting on this subject. I've spent a year researching this problem and designing a resizing die that would solve this problem with reloading belted magnums. My next step is to post a long list of product endorsements that I've been collecting to my web site.

 

[littletoes]

Larry, I am on my 5th reloading of several 300 weatherby brass that have been max loads eveyone. I have noticed no signs of stress or weakness. I have inspected the inside of every shell with a sharp pick and a flashlight with every reloading. No split necks, no ring just above the belt. Each firing I have full length re-sized this brass. I would like to try for 100 reloadings of this brass! Will look at your article and am interested in your die. Thanks , littletoes.

 

[Innovative]

Littletoes,
Wow ... with a name like that you've got to be good. Measure your fired cases "just above" the belt. Compare the diameter in this area to a new unfired cartridge. I have not seen a belted magnum case that didn't expand in this area after each firing. Eventually it will become your "exact" chamber size. When that happens, conventional resizing dies can not restore the diameter in this area. Five reloadings with one case is extremely rare. Be sure to track one particular case to be sure that you know how many times it is fired.
After 20 firings my cases look great ... but I'll toss them at that point because the necks are getting a bit work hardened. Uniform neck tension is important for accuracy. There is no visible sign of weakness or expansion "just above" the belt ... it must be measured. The sharp pick test is a very good one. If you are headspacing properly on the shoulder, you should not find a problem within the first 20 firings but it's a good practice to check. Split cases are usually caused by not headspacing on the shoulder and/or not cleaning all of the resizing lube off your cases. Read the magazine article on my website and you will see what most reloaders of belted magnums have found.

 

[kidcoltoutlaw]

the biggest problem is the primer pocket expands.not to bad win w-w cases but real bad with r-p,thanks,keith

 

[Innovative]

Keith,

Lose primer pockets are a sign that your loads are too hot or your brass is too soft. Remember, that some chambers can hike pressure with loads that would be mild in others. You can resolve this by using a slower powder or reducing your load. Primer pockets should enlarge gradualy, not all at once. It's pretty easy to get 15 - 20 reloads from your cases with Maximum loads.

Larry

 

[oldpilot]

I have 5 magnums, all belted. 300 Wby, 7mmWby Mag, 257 Wby mag, and two 7mm Rem mags, 3 Weatherby, a Bar, and Remington. I have 14 boxes of 7mm Wby reloaded 8 to 15 times. 11 boxes each of 300 Wby and 257 Wby all loaded a minimum of 9 times, and 22 boxes of 7mm Remington Mag loaded from 4 to 18 times. I do not mix the 7mm rem between rifles, but segregate them by rifle. Your post caused be to get them out put the calipers to work. I also went out and bought four boxes of unprimed brass in each caliber for comparison. I have spent 10 days measuring and cataloging the results for each box. I didn't find any significant differences between new cases and the reloads. I really was expecting to find the boxes with the most loads to be no good and was prepared to throw a lot of it out. I also checked some rounds and empty cases in each applicable gun, but no problems at all. My only conclusion is that because I seldom reload to max in any caliber the cases aren't stressed as much. I usually work up loads for a particular bullet initially from min to near max in .5 grain increments. I take the best group and load up and down by .1 grain and the best group is the load for that bullet with that specific powder and rifle. I develop a "varmit" and "hunt" load for each rifle and stick with that. My next door neighbors 300 Wby doesn't shoot my 300 Wby's best load well and vice versa, but both shoot .5 inch or better with their respective pet loads. Both guns are Mark Vs, mine is 34 years old his is 11, both 26" barrels. Makes you say hmmmmm, why is that???

 

[MagnumManiac]

Brent,
The most common problem with reloading belted magnums is when people adjust their resizing die down against the shell holder. This pushes the shoulder back and headspaces on the belt. This will split cases and shorten case life for sure. I have talked to many shooters that thought doing this would make their cartridge smaller so that they would chamber better. (They've found out that it doesn't work). Try this test using just "one" case: Reload a new case, fire it, reload it, and measure the area "just above" the belt. Then repeat the process again and again until the case won't chamber. You will find that every time that you measure the case, it has increased in diameter, in the web area, until it won't chamber. The reason that a conventional resizing die can't properly resize belted cases is this: In order to resize any given area on any case, you must press the die "slightly" below that area. Because when the case is withdrawn, it "springs back" a little bit. As long as a conventional resizing die has to stop at the belt .... it will never be able to fully reduce the case diameter "just above" the belt. Take a look at my web site www.larrywillis.com where you can see the article that I wrote for Precision Shooting on this subject. I've spent a year researching this problem and designing a resizing die that would solve this problem with reloading belted magnums. My next step is to post a long list of product endorsements that I've been collecting to my web site.

WOW!!
Your first sentence IS the reason why people get 3 reloads with belted magnums, not because they are NOT using your die. PERIOD.
What you should be peddling is a case head CLEARANCE GUAGE so that people can adjust their dies CORRECTLY so their cases are headspacing off the shoulder, not the belt. The belt is useless after the case has been fireformed to the chamber, normally, my shoulders move forward by an average of .026", yes, I actually MEASURE this aspect of my cases.
Oh, I have a question, all the squeezing of the case just above the web, or as you put it, the belt, by your collet die, where does the brass flow too, and, does it cause excessive stretching, and therefore thinning, of the brass in this area?
My thinking dictates that the brass must be displaced elsewhere along the case, causing excessive thinning after each sizing operation, just like a FL die causes the neck to grow, does your die stop this, too?
I doubt it immensely.



I have been loading belted cases since I was 16, NOT ONCE, have I had a case head separation with a belted case or the dreaded bulge, as you call it, haven't even seen it on others cases.