US Optics or Premier Reticles

[ridge rider]

I am moving up to the higher quality end of scopes so to speak which I will need for my SnipeTac338 for them long range shots.
Some time ago I clearly watched a good stag standing broadside to me at 792 yards looking through my x15 Swarovski binoculars at late afternoon light.
When I went to take the shot I could not pick that stag up in my 5.5-22x56 NightForce scope no matter what I did or how hard I tried.
I even backed the magnification back down to around x12 to x15 but still could not pick up the stag and everything else did not appear as clear as I was seeing with my binoculars.
To put it simply the light gathering ability in poor light conditions amazed me somewhat despite the fact that these scopes have some excellent optics to say the least.
So now I am looking at higher quality scopes in the quest for better light gathering in poor light conditions so that I do not experience this same sort of thing happening again.
Does anyone have any experience with either or both of these scopes to comment and to help me to decide upon which scope to choose and your reasons why please.
All comments will be greatly appreciated.

 

[TCH2FLY]

I have PR 3-15x50 on my long range target rifle and I am very pleased with every aspect of the function and quality. Low light situations have not shown any issues.
The only consideration for hunting would be the weight at 38 oz (but if you run out of ammo you can use it to beat the prey to death) .

 

[Longshot38]

I have a Premier 5-25x56. It is a great scope with optics that are second to none. I recommend these scopes to anyone who needs great glass. Also the customer service Premier offers is amazing. However these scopes do have a downside. They are heavy. If weight is a consideration I might look at something else. But both of your choices are heavy scopes. So I wouldn't think this is a consideration.

 

[BUNDUKI]

Stick with European optics if your after light gathering capabilities.
The Schmidt&Bender 5-25x56 or the zeiss 6-24x56 or 72 both theses scopes are exellent in low light conditions. Only downside is the size and weight of these scopes, I think the price is in the same range as the scopes your looking at.

 

[Longshot38]

Stick with European optics if your after light gathering capabilities.
The Schmidt&Bender 5-25x56 or the zeiss 6-24x56 or 72 both theses scopes are exellent in low light conditions. Only downside is the size and weight of these scopes, I think the price is in the same range as the scopes your looking at.

Both S&B and Zeiss are excellent. I got to do a side-by-side comparison with a Hensoldt when I bought my Premier. There is minimal difference. And both US Optics and Premier use German glass in their products. Thus the OP is fine either way.

 

[ridge rider]

Thanks to everyone for your input, much appreciated.
Will keep you posted on scope and rifle with some "show and tell" when everything comes together.

 

[Jon A]

If you're concerned about glass quality, especially in low light, you will likely be happier with the Premier. The glass in my Premier looked just a hair better than my S&B. The few USO's I've compared it to have been OK, but noticeably a step down in image quality.

 

[orkan]

Another vote for the premier. My 5-25 is the most outstanding weapon sight I own.

Easily adjustable zero stop.
27mil double turn turret with 2nd turn indicator and 15mils on the first turn.
MTC turret clicks are absolutely without equal, and can be dialed accurately in absolute darkness.
The gen2XR reticle is absolutely phenomenal.
Optical quality is as good or better than S&B's that I've used.
Extremely rugged in design.

On my 308 with a 20moa base I have 18 mils of elevation available from 100yd zero.

My only wish is that it did not take upwards of $2700 to own one. I'd have them on all of my long range rifles if funds allowed. To put this in perspective, I got rid of my nightforce after using a premier, and I used to pound the nightforce drum pretty hard.

 

[ridge rider]

Another vote for the premier. My 5-25 is the most outstanding weapon sight I own.

Easily adjustable zero stop.
27mil double turn turret with 2nd turn indicator and 15mils on the first turn.
MTC turret clicks are absolutely without equal, and can be dialed accurately in absolute darkness.
The gen2XR reticle is absolutely phenomenal.
Optical quality is as good or better than S&B's that I've used.
Extremely rugged in design.

On my 308 with a 20moa base I have 18 mils of elevation available from 100yd zero.

My only wish is that it did not take upwards of $2700 to own one. I'd have them on all of my long range rifles if funds allowed. To put this in perspective, I got rid of my nightforce after using a premier, and I used to pound the nightforce drum pretty hard.

Thanks Orkan for the reassurance you have offered me.

I had made up my mind this morning to go Premier and from everything I am hearing about this scope from you and others certainly make me feel happier with my decision to purchase one.

My other two scopes are NightForce in MOA but this one will be in Milradian.

I know some will say I am mad by having both but then again the only way to learn and understand and hence know is to have one.

I will be ordering mine today.

Thanks to everyone for your generous comments

 

[Boss Hoss]

Both S&B and Zeiss are excellent. I got to do a side-by-side comparison with a Hensoldt when I bought my Premier. There is minimal difference. And both US Optics and Premier use German glass in their products. Thus the OP is fine either way.

No they do not---you know not of what you speak. Stick to what you know not what you read about. The glass is just that glass---Schott is also made here as well as Europe and USO has sourced it from both and has done so for many years. The processing that goes into the lens after manufacture is what make the difference.

I have a safe full of USO, S&B PMII's and Zeniths a few VMV's and a few Swaro's. The size of the objective is not what seeing in low light is about. Sure it has a lot to do with it however, next time you are hunting at night (we hunt hogs at long range at night) try looking under trees and tell me what you can see? The good scopes enable you to effectively "see in the shade so to speak" because this capability is what separated the big boys from the little ones.

Personally I like the USO's and Arnold built and sent my latest SN3 (.17MOA) last month for my 300 Jarrett that Speedy built over Christmas ---- love it. The 34 or 35mm is not always needed so the 30mm tube is a great option and with the USO you can have a 30 or 35.

 

[HuDisCo]

I am moving up to the higher quality end of scopes so to speak which I will need for my SnipeTac338 for them long range shots.
Some time ago I clearly watched a good stag standing broadside to me at 792 yards looking through my x15 Swarovski binoculars at late afternoon light.
When I went to take the shot I could not pick that stag up in my 5.5-22x56 NightForce scope no matter what I did or how hard I tried.
I even backed the magnification back down to around x12 to x15 but still could not pick up the stag and everything else did not appear as clear as I was seeing with my binoculars.
To put it simply the light gathering ability in poor light conditions amazed me somewhat despite the fact that these scopes have some excellent optics to say the least.
So now I am looking at higher quality scopes in the quest for better light gathering in poor light conditions so that I do not experience this same sort of thing happening again.
Does anyone have any experience with either or both of these scopes to comment and to help me to decide upon which scope to choose and your reasons why please.
All comments will be greatly appreciated.

This would be my recommendation. For pure resolution and low light performance. Nothing else comes close.

72mm FL objective lens for outstanding exit pupil size at higher magnification settings. Also, unmatched resolution, and low light performance. Google "Dawes limit".

Relatively compact at just over 15" long.

Mounts only 7mm higher that 56mm obj lens.

Outstanding durability (never had one back broken here).

I hope that helps!

Best regards,

Nathan Hunt

 

[orkan]

Or maybe this:

That hensoldt you linked is not available in ffp correct? From what I'm seeing, it is only available in 2fp. Doesn't have as much elevation as the premier. Does it have a zero stop? 2nd turn indicator? Nothing bad can be said about zeiss optics... but at some point the features of the weapon sight have to come into play. In that aspect, the hensoldt stuff just doesn't seem to carry the feature set to demand the prices they go for.

 

[HuDisCo]

Orkan,

I always get a kick out the hubble refference. Lots of folks call it the "baby hubble". It only mounts 7mm higher than a 56mm...

Trying to address the OP's problem. I don't recommend the 72mm for every application, but it is excellently suited to his situation.

The OP is trying to see distant targets at night. The most effective way to do this is with a larger lens.

Most people would consider 6mm to be the minimum exit pupil size for shooting in lowlight. This way the exit pupil matches the size of the pupil of your eye. The 72mm can achieve this exit pupil size at 12x. A similar quality 56mm scope has to be turned down to about 9.3 to achieve the same exit pupil size. All other things being equal a larger objective lens will always give better performance. But, all things are not equal in this case...

The 72mm lens we are discussing uses Zeiss FL technology.

- FL glass with fluoride ions in the objective for superior color correction.

- Thin lens design, employing multiple air-spaced elements for reduced weight, improved resolution and minimal distortions.

- Highly sophisticated eyepiece design for a wide field of view and long eye relief performance.

- Exceptional internal baffling against stray light for improved contrast.

- T* anti-reflective multi-layer coatings on all air-to-glass surfaces for brighter, high-contrast images.

Zeiss T* lenses also transmit light at the highest rate in the industry. A measured 99.8% per air to glass surface (there are typically 2 per lens).

You have to consider the problem when deciding what feature set you need.

Around 30moa of cant in your mounting system will settle the zero stop issue.

8 mils per turn mean you should get out of the 1st rev in a hunting situation.

It is an SFP scope, but so is the NF the OP is using. This just takes a little thought when in the field. 12x (middle) is standard value 24x (top) is half value and 6x (bottom) is double value. I have used this in rifle matches without problems. If you are taking shots at game animals you probably wouldn't be snap shooting, especially at these distances...

You mentioned pricing, but from a production standpoint, features don't typically add much if any costs, but quality does.

I hope this addressed some of your concerns.

Best regards,

Nathan Hunt

 

[Longshot38]

No they do not---you know not of what you speak. Stick to what you know not what you read about. The glass is just that glass---Schott is also made here as well as Europe and USO has sourced it from both and has done so for many years. The processing that goes into the lens after manufacture is what make the difference.

Actually I know of what I speak. I don't go around spouting misinformation, in fact that is pet peeve of mine. And yes they DO. You said it yourself they have purchase their glass for Schott, a German Company that produces the finest glass one can buy. Yes Schott has manufacturing facilities in the US but it doesn't change the quality of the glass. And glass is not just glass. Like most thinks the manufacturing process has a lot to do with it. Thus not all glass is created equal. The quality of the glass has a lot to do with clarity. However the coatings have everything to to do with light transmission and contrast.

As I have said I give first hand experience. When I bought my Premier I did a side-by side comparison with a Hensoldt. The difference between the two was splitting hairs. Over the years I have either owned or been behind every nearly every major and minor manufactures scopes. And European made scopes used to have the edge of ALL mass produced us scope. However this is no longer the case. I have used numerous scopes in recent years in both low light and night scenarios. And while European built scopes are excellent they are no longer the only ones in the ball game.