m249
Well-Known Member
Why do my shots group better at 200 yards then 100 yards using these bullets, is it common for these to do this? Would it be better to test loads at 200 and 300 hundred yards to long range use?
Question about berger vld's
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liltank
Well-Known Member
I'll try and be as short with this explanation as possible. Boat tail bullets where specifically designed to fly longer and farther than flat base bullets. Here's the theory and there has been some proven factor to this. Flat base bullets will generally shoot more accurately at shorter distances than boat tails. Shorter distance is approximately 300-600 yards. Past that distance is where the boat tails tend to shine.
Flat base bullets will stabilize and fly truer in shorter amount of time. Sometimes a boat tail bullet requires more flight time to truly stabilize and follow a true accuracy node. Some shooters will zero at 200 yards just for this very reason. You are seeing a result of this theory. I'm sure others will chime in with their opinions and I am interested to see their explanations. What I have just explained was told to me by both a very aged shooter that is very knowledgeable and a gunsmith with just about the same amount of experience.
I hope this helps.
Flat base bullets will stabilize and fly truer in shorter amount of time. Sometimes a boat tail bullet requires more flight time to truly stabilize and follow a true accuracy node. Some shooters will zero at 200 yards just for this very reason. You are seeing a result of this theory. I'm sure others will chime in with their opinions and I am interested to see their explanations. What I have just explained was told to me by both a very aged shooter that is very knowledgeable and a gunsmith with just about the same amount of experience.
I hope this helps.
royinidaho
Well-Known Member
10-4 on that.
It just takes 'em a little longer to "go to sleep".
I 'think" I'm learning that a fast twist will stabilize them a bit sooner. Though the jury is still out on that one......
It just takes 'em a little longer to "go to sleep".
I 'think" I'm learning that a fast twist will stabilize them a bit sooner. Though the jury is still out on that one......
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
I assume that you mean that your groups measured in moa are smaller and not groups measured in inches. It is impossible for a group to actually be smaller at 200 yards then it is at 100 yards.
I guess someone may refute this. If so, I'd be very interested to hear the explanation for this phenomenon.
I guess someone may refute this. If so, I'd be very interested to hear the explanation for this phenomenon.
Agree. Better be talking smaller as expressed in MOA or I'm pushing the eject button.
Michael Eichele
Well-Known Member
Some bullet/twist/velocity relationships lead to this "tighter MOA" at distance. Cant expalin it, just know it happens. To answer your question, yes, you should "test" your loads at the distances you wish to shoot them. 100 yards can be helpfull but isnt the end all nor the answer.
As far as inches smaller at distance versus closer ranges, it has happened to me with a load or two. I had one load that comes to mind that would shoot 1 MOA all day long out to 600 and yet concistently shoot sub 1/2 MOA at a full 1000. Go ahead, eject. Again, cant explain it. I am not a scientist just a shooter. The same rifle had loads that maintained the same MOA from 100 to 1K and others that maintained it to a given distance and then opend up dramatically past 800, yet others that got better with distance. IMHO its all in the bullet/twist/velocity relationship.
As far as inches smaller at distance versus closer ranges, it has happened to me with a load or two. I had one load that comes to mind that would shoot 1 MOA all day long out to 600 and yet concistently shoot sub 1/2 MOA at a full 1000. Go ahead, eject. Again, cant explain it. I am not a scientist just a shooter. The same rifle had loads that maintained the same MOA from 100 to 1K and others that maintained it to a given distance and then opend up dramatically past 800, yet others that got better with distance. IMHO its all in the bullet/twist/velocity relationship.
Self-guided, auto-correcting, hole-in-target-seeking tipped bullets.
I've had it happen once or twice. I called it luck.
royinidaho
Well-Known Member
Words mean things, be careful especially with the difference between inches and MOA.
In inches I agree that its impossible for a rifle to shot 1" @ 200 and less than 1" at any greater distance.
However, what Michael says regarding MOA is true and is observed quite frequently.
I have a rifle that will shoot 1/4 MOA @ 200 and at 1000 on a perfect day but ONLY on perfect days. (that would be days without wind AND mirage and I'm in the Zone).
In inches I agree that its impossible for a rifle to shot 1" @ 200 and less than 1" at any greater distance.
However, what Michael says regarding MOA is true and is observed quite frequently.
I have a rifle that will shoot 1/4 MOA @ 200 and at 1000 on a perfect day but ONLY on perfect days. (that would be days without wind AND mirage and I'm in the Zone
).Roy,
I'm with you on the groups expressed in MOA versus inch measurements. Michael could clarify this, but I understood his post to state that he's had a load that consistently produced smaller measured groups at 1000 yds than the groups printed at 600 yds. 6.24" at 600 yds (0.6 MOA @ 600yds) and less than 5.2" at 1000 yds (sub 0.5 MOA @ 1000yds).
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NZP
Well-Known Member
these are only 5 shot groups..but my 280AI will shoot .75MOA @ 100, .3-.5MOA at 300 and .6 - .7 at 600
havent tested further than that. these were on relatively calm days obviously. would love to try it at 1000 one day
havent tested further than that. these were on relatively calm days obviously. would love to try it at 1000 one day
royinidaho
Well-Known Member
Paul,
I understand......
I understand......
rick523
Well-Known Member
I'm just curious why everyone thinks it is hard to beleive he shoots a smaller group at 200 yds. vs 100yds. (not 1000 that ya'll have read into his post)?
Truc
Well-Known Member
I have shot Benchrest for several yrs, not the best by far but I have shot smaller MOA at 200 yds in a match than at 100 yds. Smallest at 200 yds was a .199" (.999" MOA) and smallest at 100 yds.was a .122"
