Advise on Bushing Dies Please

[MontanaRifleman]

I am about to order some Redding Type S Bushing dyes. I'll be calling the Redding tech support Monday morning but I thought I would get some opinions here also.

The Dies are for a 300 RUM and I would like to know which sizes I should order and are the Titanium Nitride bushings any better then the Stell bushings?

Thanks,

-MR

 

[BountyHunter]

Go to the sinclair intl site and read how to tell what bushing size you need. Generally look for .002-.003 under the loaded round diameter.

Definitely go with the titanium nitride.

BH

 

[Pdvdh]

BH,

How come the TN coated bushings? I've been too miserly to put out the extra cash so I've got about a dozen of the uncoated bushings. I use Imperial Sizing Die Wax on my case necks prior to sizing anyhow.

Just curious what I've been missing out on...?

I agree that ~ 2 thou under the outside case neck diameter with a bullet loaded in your case necks is about right. Redding's instructions have always confused me because some of their printed directions say go 0.001" under and then some of the neck bushing packaged instructions state 0.002"-0.003" under.

I don't know if their 0.001" advice is for competition shooters or what. But for hunting plan on 2-3 thousanths under, like BH already stated.

 

[BountyHunter]

I think that the TN bushings are smoother and just slide up and down the neck easier. I do not like anything pulling too much on the neck. But that is just me. $20 bushings are cheap in this game.

.001 for comp guns shot single shot and if you dump powder in the bore, you have time to work it out. Hunting guns especially in a mag you will need .002-.003 to ensure the bullet does not move during recoil. Not fun trying to get a second shot and a bullet is now too long to come out of the top of the mag.

 

[Pdvdh]

Thanks for that explanation. $20 is cheap, but not as cheap as I am.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Thanks for the input guys. I have never used a bushing die and I am still trying to wrap my head around the concept. It obviously allows you to adjust neck tension. The way I understood the mechanics of a neck sizer before was that the expander button went down through the ncek, and the the neck die squeezed the neck the a slight less diameter than the expander button which would open it up to the correct "inside" diameter to seat the bullet. With the bushing style sizer it seems that the expander button plays no role?

Measuring my Rem factory ammo, the neck OD measures ~ .3375. I plan on turning the necks just enough to remove the high spots. Right now their thickness measures ~ .017-.018, so hopefully I wont be removing more than .001 of material.

When I measure my 300 WSM before seating and after seating 180 E-Tips. It measures .336 before and .338 after, so .002 tension? This seems to work very well with these bullets as far as grip. They seat smoothly and hold well.

Soooo... I'm guessing I need a .335 bushing??? Any comments?

 

[woods]

IMO the bushing dies are not as useful unless you outside neck turn. If you leave the expander ball in then you might as well be using a cheaper full length die. The bushing will size the neck smaller just like a full length die and then the expander will expand the neck back out to the size of the expander ball. It wouldn't matter what size bushing you got because the expander is going to determine the inside dimensions of the neck.

Now you can take the expander out and that will mean the outside dimension of the neck will be the size of the bushing and that is preferable to using the expander. However if you have neck brass that has an inconsistant thickness then all the hills and valleys will be transferred to the inside of the neck. If you have very consistant neck thickness then this will not matter.

If you neck turn your brass to a consistant thickness and use the bushing die without the expander then you are in control.

An alternative method is to take the expander out of your full length die or neck die and outside neck turn the brass thickness to a consistant thickness and one that will give you the bullet grip you want.

 

[Pdvdh]

IMO the bushing dies are not as useful unless you outside neck turn. If you leave the expander ball in then you might as well be using a cheaper full length die. The bushing will size the neck smaller just like a full length die and then the expander will expand the neck back out to the size of the expander ball. It wouldn't matter what size bushing you got because the expander is going to determine the inside dimensions of the neck.

If you neck turn your brass to a consistant thickness and use the bushing die without the expander then you are in control.

Agree, I neck size only with Redding bushing style neck sizing dies, but I also outside neck turn case necks to a uniform dimension. This is the only way to get uniform necks and neck tension with the neck bushing dies that I'm aware of.

 

[dirtball]

Thanks for the input guys. I have never used a bushing die and I am still trying to wrap my head around the concept. It obviously allows you to adjust neck tension. The way I understood the mechanics of a neck sizer before was that the expander button went down through the ncek, and the the neck die squeezed the neck the a slight less diameter than the expander button which would open it up to the correct "inside" diameter to seat the bullet. With the bushing style sizer it seems that the expander button plays no role?

Measuring my Rem factory ammo, the neck OD measures ~ .3375. I plan on turning the necks just enough to remove the high spots. Right now their thickness measures ~ .017-.018, so hopefully I wont be removing more than .001 of material.

When I measure my 300 WSM before seating and after seating 180 E-Tips. It measures .336 before and .338 after, so .002 tension? This seems to work very well with these bullets as far as grip. They seat smoothly and hold well.

Soooo... I'm guessing I need a .335 bushing??? Any comments?

What I would suggest is that you take a random sample of 10 to 15 cases, turn the necks to find out how much you will have to take off to clean them to your satisfaction. That will be you neck thickness for that batch of brass. Load a bullet (no primer no powder) into say 4 of the them, mic the LOADED neck diameter and the order both .002 and .003 smaller bushings. I would order the set that has the "Type "S" neck sizing die, a body die, and the seating die of your preference, and DO NOT use the expander ball.
Dave

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Thanks again for the input guys. Much appreciated. I dont have any 300 RUM dies to to size the neck for turning. I do have a 300 WSM neck die and actually ran a 300 RUM case through it to get a nice round neck and it worked pretty good. I will turn one of these necks and get the OD and then order the bushing that is equal in diameter which "should" get me about .002 tension. If it's not enough tension, then I'll order another one.

How far down the necks should I turn them? I'm thinking about .050 within the junction of the shoulder. I was planning to size to leave a doughnut at the bottom of the neck to center the case into the chamber.

Dirtball, I am planning to get the set you described, seems like the way to go to me.

Will also be getting the TN bushing, what's another $10?

-MR

 

[woods]

How far down the necks should I turn them? I'm thinking about .050 within the junction of the shoulder. I was planning to size to leave a doughnut at the bottom of the neck to center the case into the chamber.

-MR

Forster recommends that you turn a little INTO the shoulder

to mitigate development of an internal do-nut

Whether that works or not is up for grabs but IMO it would not be adviseable to turn only part of the neck. What you seem to want to accomplish is to leave part of the neck fire formed size

You can do that by setting your die correctly whether the brass was thicker there or not. Leaving part of the neck unturned and thicker can lead to problems trying to set the die to size down to that exact point. Also if you decide later to size without leaving the external do-nut then you would have another problem.

 

[Pdvdh]

Great illustrations woods. That's exactly what I do. Outside neck turn slightly back into the shoulder in order to mitigate the formation of a thickened ring/doughut at the base of the case neck.