Gunsmiths ( builders) have to make a living tooLately, I've been having a lot of self talks, about why I continue to have customs built for me versus buying a production rifle, and making minor corrections to it, such as new trigger, bed or float the barrel if needed, and maybe flipping it into a new stock.
These small changes that can make a production line rifle more accurate and comfortable to shoot and is a lot more cost effective than selling blood to fund a full build...In the end, what did we truly gain over a boxed rifle, if both shoot sub groups?
Here's the question...If rubber meeting the road is based on paper, steel, and fur accuracy. Then a box rifle that shoots "even-steven" MOA consistently over 10 rounds and sub MOA on 3 shot groups. What did a guy spending $4k gain, if his rifle does the same?
This question is coming from a guy who has over 15 custom builds. Aside, from pride of ownership and a certain level of confidence knowing that the parts pieced together, both internally and externally are some of the best made today...It doesn't change the fact that a guy who bought a production rifle, can hit the daily-lottery, and have an excellent shooting rig that can hang with a custom all day long.
Who's the smarter guy?
What does a custom build rig really get you???
- Thread starter Beaver10
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Gunsmiths ( builders) have to make a living too
gohring3006
Well-Known Member
One thing I can say about some of these 500$ factory rifles that can actually hold their own at long range, is I can put a SHV on top, and if it falls over the mountain and gets beat up, I'm not too mad. It's nice to have a utility rifle that can shoot.
Beaver10
Well-Known Member
Exactly...A good rifle builder is right up there with a good doctor, dentist, mechanic and lawyer...
Beaver10
Well-Known Member
I had to finally grow some nut hair about my customs and stop fretting over a ding, sorries, or whoopsies, and just hunt the rig like it was built to be used.
Once i understood the money I'm going lose selling a custom, even in perfect condition, helped me get passed it. I use them all, trying to wring as much enjoyment out of the rig as I can without stressing over some honest hunting wear.
Yep you ain't getting your back on one just use it and shoot the heck out of it
I'm hard on mine
I'm hard on mine
PredatorSlayer
Well-Known Member
This has always been a huge deterrent for me - I buy and sell rifles all the time. Its so much tougher to churn them when you are dealing in customs. Cents on the dollar if you want to move one.
Muddyboots
Well-Known Member
An upper end factory rifle coupled with an experienced reloader/shooter can sometimes be the right combination to push the factory rifle to performance that can be quite close to custom. I feel like it is almost like winning a lottery when you buy a factory rifle and it is a shooter immediately. I have a G1 Sendero 300WM that has shot <0.5 since the first day I bought it. On some days if I don't drink Starbucks deep roast coffee for a week, I can get it down to 0.3 at 300 yards (max for my range). The farthest I have shot it is 500 and it still held 0.5. The barrel never really fouls, copper not an issue and neither is carbon. I have no clue why this rifle was in a factory box when I ordered it. The only change was Timney trigger which improve consistency for me. I have never shot factory ammo through it so I don't know what it would do with it.
I think we can all agree that manufacturers have taken notice there is a customer base now that will buy into performance and it is showing up each year with new model releases that at one time was only custom option such as twist rates, 5R, adjustable stocks, triggers, chassis stocks, all types of bedding options. I will bet in couple years one of the manufacturers will have a build page to build what you want.
I would buy custom when it is only means to get exactly what I want. In fact, I have a call next week to discuss a build. I can't get it in factory so custom is probably going to be my best method of getting exactly what I want. Therein lies the difference; settle for 80% of what you want in factory or get 100% in custom. BUT if the 80% will serve 90% of your needs then another decision.....
I think we can all agree that manufacturers have taken notice there is a customer base now that will buy into performance and it is showing up each year with new model releases that at one time was only custom option such as twist rates, 5R, adjustable stocks, triggers, chassis stocks, all types of bedding options. I will bet in couple years one of the manufacturers will have a build page to build what you want.
I would buy custom when it is only means to get exactly what I want. In fact, I have a call next week to discuss a build. I can't get it in factory so custom is probably going to be my best method of getting exactly what I want. Therein lies the difference; settle for 80% of what you want in factory or get 100% in custom. BUT if the 80% will serve 90% of your needs then another decision.....
Jmatt
Well-Known Member
Custom gun shops and gunsmiths are like speed shops and gear heads. There are always going to be people who need to get more out of their machines than the factories are willing to offer. And gunsmiths, like gear heads, will always push the limits and get that last bit of horsepower/Accuracy that some customers demand. Little by little the factories respond and are better for it. Sometimes, factory offerings almost catch up: Mustang, Camero, Challenger, etc.. (my $270 Ruger American shoots 5/8 moa with Hornady American Whitetail). Other times, the factory manufacturers are way behind. At the end of the day it's a mutually beneficial relationship. Anyway, I'm thankful to have the choice,
PredatorSlayer
Well-Known Member
I am guessing its been a while since you bought a high end factory rifle? That used to be the case, but now 1/2-3/4 minute guns are the norm. It gets really crazy when you can buy a sub $500 rifle and get that same accuracy. I've got a howa mini 6.5 grendel that shoots 3/4 moa all day with the cheap hornady black ammo. Its a truck gun, so I am not going to put any money into it.
Alot of guys on this site are stuck in the 70's,80's and 90's where factory rifle were lucky to shoot moa and factory ammo was a little better than military surplus...
D
Deleted member 48126
Guest
Straight up I buy customs bc they look good and when I miss or screw up a shot I know it's me.
I personally think it's all what u want in a rifle and the range u expect to be accurate for your needs.
Custom guns for the most part I have found will shoot about any load u put in it. I only have 1 my self but been around a lot. Factory not so much. That doesn't mean that you can't get one to shoot. I just spent the better part of 2 years playing with a factory 300 mag. When I found the right combo it went from shooting 1.25 Moa at 100 yards to legit hole shot.
Most of the guns I own are factory guns that have been played with over the years that shoot well under an MOA out to 600 yards. ive spent a lot of time on playing with the loads to find the right combo because I enjoy the challenge. Have I gave up on guns. U bet.
with that being said I have only one full custom. Can't afford more. Lol. But my goodness it shots any thing I put in it.
With that being said I also have a factory ruger action m77 tang (old style)with a custom benchmark barrel on it that was installed by benchmark personal years ago in a 7mm and that dang thing will shoot hand in hand with the custom at a 1/3 of the price. So go figure and again I say it's all in what u want to accomplish.
Closing. Would I buy a gun again full custom to hunt with—- maybe if only the wife don't find out
Cheers
Custom guns for the most part I have found will shoot about any load u put in it. I only have 1 my self but been around a lot. Factory not so much. That doesn't mean that you can't get one to shoot. I just spent the better part of 2 years playing with a factory 300 mag. When I found the right combo it went from shooting 1.25 Moa at 100 yards to legit hole shot.
Most of the guns I own are factory guns that have been played with over the years that shoot well under an MOA out to 600 yards. ive spent a lot of time on playing with the loads to find the right combo because I enjoy the challenge. Have I gave up on guns. U bet.
with that being said I have only one full custom. Can't afford more. Lol. But my goodness it shots any thing I put in it.
With that being said I also have a factory ruger action m77 tang (old style)with a custom benchmark barrel on it that was installed by benchmark personal years ago in a 7mm and that dang thing will shoot hand in hand with the custom at a 1/3 of the price. So go figure and again I say it's all in what u want to accomplish.
Closing. Would I buy a gun again full custom to hunt with—- maybe if only the wife don't find out
Cheers
Interesting, I have shot 1000 yard BR with customs and factory for years. In all, over 20+ years, I have seen ONE factory rifle shoot 4 five shot groups over two days of .5 MOA. It was a stock Remington 5R 308 with new trigger. The guy had a chance to sell that gun 20 times that weekend. The norm was 3/4 to normally around 1 MOA for the factory guns, while the customs are .2-.3 normally. My best factory rifle (300 WSM) would go .7-1 MOA routinely and occasionally down to just over .5 MOA. Now the internet is loaded with 1/4 MOA factory rifles, they just never make it to the matches where they would win every time and walk away with the prizes. Just sayin!
Now I will admit the factory rifles are getting better because that is what the customer wants. I hunt with both and I have had too many factory rifles fail/break or whatever over the years and I do not trust most bone stock factory rifles. Some are better than others, but often at or near the price of a custom and routinely with higher end barrels and trued actions. If all you are shooting is 200-300 yards, then just about any ragged SPS will work normally.
Now I will admit the factory rifles are getting better because that is what the customer wants. I hunt with both and I have had too many factory rifles fail/break or whatever over the years and I do not trust most bone stock factory rifles. Some are better than others, but often at or near the price of a custom and routinely with higher end barrels and trued actions. If all you are shooting is 200-300 yards, then just about any ragged SPS will work normally.
Memberberries
Well-Known Member
I just picked up a Remington 700 5r Gen 2 in 308 and dropped it in a krg bravo chassis. I got to shoot today with no wind and fresh paint on the gong and it was 5 shots at about an inch at 200 yds. All factory except for the stock and traded the thread protector for a suppressor.
Built my wife a howa 1500 mini in 6.5 grendel last year and bedded in a boyds stock and the barrel is shortened to 18 and threaded, not really custom with a factory barrel and trigger. It shoots hornady black 123 eld sub moa all day long if I do my part and my best paper group at 200 yds is .3 moa with lots under .5
I've had lots of factory guns have problems over the years and I think they are more sensitive to cleanliness than a lapped custom barrel and they get dirty faster but if you take care of em they will treat you well. Customs give a sense of confidence that less will be different today than it was last time the gun got shot.
Built my wife a howa 1500 mini in 6.5 grendel last year and bedded in a boyds stock and the barrel is shortened to 18 and threaded, not really custom with a factory barrel and trigger. It shoots hornady black 123 eld sub moa all day long if I do my part and my best paper group at 200 yds is .3 moa with lots under .5
I've had lots of factory guns have problems over the years and I think they are more sensitive to cleanliness than a lapped custom barrel and they get dirty faster but if you take care of em they will treat you well. Customs give a sense of confidence that less will be different today than it was last time the gun got shot.
A custom rifle gets you exactly what you want, no matter how ridiculous it is. If I were content with shooting standard chamberings I'd just buy factory rifles and be done.
The price attached to a lot of custom guns is just a "brand" mark up. I've seen some first rate trash come from big name smiths. My most accurate "custom" guns have all been either built by local guys who nobody's heard of, or assembled in my garage from a pile of parts.
The price attached to a lot of custom guns is just a "brand" mark up. I've seen some first rate trash come from big name smiths. My most accurate "custom" guns have all been either built by local guys who nobody's heard of, or assembled in my garage from a pile of parts.
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