.458 Socom

[JWH Clark]

I hope this the correct place to post this.

I want a .458 SOCOM for pig hunting and was wondering if the cartridge will work on a lever action?

If so any info on type of action etc would be appreciated.



Thanks.

 

[BountyHunter]

Why 458 SOCOM?

Use 45-70 or 450 Marlin.

Rebated head is going to be tough to get to work right in lever with big body IMO and not sure what the useful purpose is over the existing big bore lever action calibers. They use bigger bullets and more KE and MV.

BH

 

[JWH Clark]

Why 458 SOCOM?

Use 45-70 or 450 Marlin.

Rebated head is going to be tough to get to work right in lever with big body IMO and not sure what the useful purpose is over the existing big bore lever action calibers. They use bigger bullets and more KE and MV.

BH

The shooting will within 100yards so was thinking of the short cartridge as the pigs get in real close. I also thought the the 458 socom had big knockdown power with sub sonic bullets, which is what I would like to go with.

Am I on the right track with this? It was a general discussion I had with some buddies and the 458 socom seemed to fit the bill.


Thanks for the reply.

 

[James Jones]

The 450 Alaskan is a beast of a round , I know of a few guys now carrying them in Africa as backup guns.

Why are you thinking about shooting them sub sonic? you gonna use a silencer

 

[eshell]

JWH, maybe to clarify this a little, the .458 SOCOM is a rather specialized cartridge designed specifically for a lot of power in an AR-15 platform. For this purpose, it DOES provide an exceptional amount of kinetic energy.

Once one moves away from the AR-15 platform, which you seem to intend, the .458 SOCOM offers no special qualities and is easily exceeded by many other more popular (lever gun) rounds.

Lever guns are plentiful in other more appropriate calibers, such as those recommended above. I have a.444 Marlin that offers about as much power as a .30-06, and the .450 Marlin offers more power yet:

.30-06: 180 grains/2,700 fps/2,900 ft/lbs.
.444 Marlin: 240/2,350 fps/2,940 ft.lbs.
.458 SOCOM: 300 grains/2,000 fps (claimed)/2,665 ft.lbs.
.45-70: 300 grain/1,800 fps/2,158 ft.lbs.
.450 Marlin: 350 grain/2,100 fps/3,425 ft.lbs.

I say "claimed" with the .458 SOCOM, because that's what the designer's say in their sales hype, but other sources say it's more like 1,750 to 1,800 fps, or, about the same as the .45-70. Even at the claimed 2,000 fps, of comparable lever gun choices, it only actually exceeds the .45-70 . . .

Subsonic? Any of them can be loaded to sub-sonic levels, if you're willing to toss all the above energy out the window. At sub-sonic velocities for any/all of them, bullet weight alone will determine energy, and anything in .458 diameter is going to deliver the same energy with the same weight bullet. If we load a 500 grain bullet at 1,050 in all of them, they all deliver 1,220 ft.lbs. . . .

 

[JWH Clark]

JWH, maybe to clarify this a little, the .458 SOCOM is a rather specialized cartridge designed specifically for a lot of power in an AR-15 platform. For this purpose, it DOES provide an exceptional amount of kinetic energy.

Once one moves away from the AR-15 platform, which you seem to intend, the .458 SOCOM offers no special qualities and is easily exceeded by many other more popular (lever gun) rounds.

Lever guns are plentiful in other more appropriate calibers, such as those recommended above. I have a.444 Marlin that offers about as much power as a .30-06, and the .450 Marlin offers more power yet:

.30-06: 180 grains/2,700 fps/2,900 ft/lbs.
.444 Marlin: 240/2,350 fps/2,940 ft.lbs.
.458 SOCOM: 300 grains/2,000 fps (claimed)/2,665 ft.lbs.
.45-70: 300 grain/1,800 fps/2,158 ft.lbs.
.450 Marlin: 350 grain/2,100 fps/3,425 ft.lbs.

I say "claimed" with the .458 SOCOM, because that's what the designer's say in their sales hype, but other sources say it's more like 1,750 to 1,800 fps, or, about the same as the .45-70. Even at the claimed 2,000 fps, of comparable lever gun choices, it only actually exceeds the .45-70 . . .

Subsonic? Any of them can be loaded to sub-sonic levels, if you're willing to toss all the above energy out the window. At sub-sonic velocities for any/all of them, bullet weight alone will determine energy, and anything in .458 diameter is going to deliver the same energy with the same weight bullet. If we load a 500 grain bullet at 1,050 in all of them, they all deliver 1,220 ft.lbs. . . .

Eshell

Thats a great reply thanks for the heads up. This cal is new to me but when I looked at it it seemed to have what I needed. Now the AR platform wasnt going to be a go as the cost wouldnt be justified, hence the underlever thought. I appreciate that the subsonic ammo might not seem ideal but as Mr Jones has said I would be using a moderator on it for pigs in thick cover.

I have now looked at the 444 Marlin and the rifle is a very good one so perhaps the 458 Socom is now second best as ive found a nice Stainless 444 for good money to have a play with.

If anyone else has any info or ideas on my project please keep the suggestions coming.


Again thanks for the replies, much appreciated.

 

[James Jones]

Eshell , I've been making and playing with silencers and for a little bit now and have found that unless your looking for absolute movie style quiet then subsonic isin't realy needed. , My 308 is quiet enough that at 50yds the round inpact at target is louder than the sonic crack , I did a bit of testing wtih me standing close to the target (1 gallon full jug) and had a buddy shoot it for 50yds away , while the report was able to be heard it wasen't nearly as loud as the impact , the noise level is on par with that of a regular 22lr being shot out of a 24" barreled bolt rifle.

The 444 marlin would make a great gun for your needs , even with full house loads shot through well desgined can the hogs woulden't be any more spooked that if they were shot with a sub sonic load.

I'm thinking about having an encore barrel chambered in 500S&W to load to sub sonic levels with a 500gr Hornady XTP. the barrel would be 14" with a 6" permanently attached silencer. this would be for "varmint" control is developed areas. Hogs a big time nusince animals down here.

 

[JWH Clark]

The 444 marlin would make a great gun for your needs , even with full house loads shot through well desgined can the hogs woulden't be any more spooked that if they were shot with a sub sonic load.

I'm thinking about having an encore barrel chambered in 500S&W to load to sub sonic levels with a 500gr Hornady XTP. the barrel would be 14" with a 6" permanently attached silencer. this would be for "varmint" control is developed areas. Hogs a big time nusince animals down here.[/QUOTE]

Now were are talking!

I think the 444 will be cut to 18-20" and a sound moddy fitted. I'll be using 180-200g heads, this should be the medicine required. Oh I forgot to mention the piggies are shot over dogs sometimes so the moddy is a must!

 

[James Jones]

Yea , I'm sure that the dogs would apperciate the quieter round !! but if your using dogs then you don't need a gun at all , just catchthem and grain feed them for a moneth before you butcher em , it helps alot with the taste , most of our hogs are cought in the marsh so the meat wil often have a bad taste do to the mud that these rascles find their food in so we pen raise them a for a bit. Besides its alot more chalenging to hand to hand with a tusker than to just shoot one.

What silencer are you planning to use?

 

[JWH Clark]

Yea , I'm sure that the dogs would apperciate the quieter round !! but if your using dogs then you don't need a gun at all , just catchthem and grain feed them for a moneth before you butcher em , it helps alot with the taste , most of our hogs are cought in the marsh so the meat wil often have a bad taste do to the mud that these rascles find their food in so we pen raise them a for a bit. Besides its alot more chalenging to hand to hand with a tusker than to just shoot one.

What silencer are you planning to use?

Well the boys where we are off (New Zealand) hunt the critters with knives normally, but for me it will have to be the good ol rifle! These buggers live in the flats of the mountains as far as I know and the food is pretty good by all accounts. The dogs are trained pig dogs so they dont take prisoners, right hardy little mutts.

As for the moddy I use one from Norway called the A-TEC, familiar? Very good unit does what says on the tin and at 500g its very lite too. Its a sleeve type unit that goes over the barrel, very quiet.

 

[Tyler Kemp]

With a lever action might as well go for 45-70. Many reason, here are a few:
Better feeding
Brass will always be available, and at a cheaper price
In a Marlin 2400 fps with a 300 grainer is doable, thats some major energy.
Or 2100+ fps with a 350 grainer
Or 2000ish fps with a 405 grainer
Or 1600 fps with a 500 grainer
You will be using one of the oldest cartridges
You qualify to be in the band of 45-70ers.

Need any more?

 

[eshell]

Eshell , I've been making and playing with silencers and for a little bit now and have found that unless your looking for absolute movie style quiet then subsonic isin't realy needed. , My 308 is quiet enough that at 50yds the round inpact at target is louder than the sonic crack , I did a bit of testing wtih me standing close to the target (1 gallon full jug) and had a buddy shoot it for 50yds away , while the report was able to be heard it wasen't nearly as loud as the impact , the noise level is on par with that of a regular 22lr being shot out of a 24" barreled bolt rifle.

Hey James, understood and agreed. I also have a suppressed rifle and know exactly what you're talking about with sub-sonics vs super-sonics through the suppressor. The question was specifically about sub-sonics, hence my approach to the answer, though I think you are right to read through that.

 

[fireball168]

458 SOCOM is doable in an 1895 Marlin without too much concern....

I talked with this fellow about doing the conversion:

Nonneman Custom Rifles - Fine quality firearms for the discriminating shooter

What you'll need to do is nothing more than this....shorten some Starline 50 Alaskan brass to about 1.6", run them through a 458 SOCOM die(I prefer CH4D or Hornady), final trim, and go.

That will solve the rebated rim concern.

For states that have cartridge length restrictions for deer, such as Indiana, this isn't a bad way to go.

When loaded past the 35k psi range that the AR bolt limits this round to, the little cartridge can be quite inspiring.

I've got one on a Mauser action with a 20" barrel, the last outing with it I was at 2050fps with 300gr. Hornady's without any pressure signs whatsoever, and case capacity to spare for my next range trip.

 

[DianneB]

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