Improving long range performance for my "standard" stuff

[grit]

I was wondering how I might improve the external ballistics of my "regular" rifles.

These are the rigs and loads.
CZ 550 in 243 24.5" barrel
Load: 46.4 re19 & 87vmax @ 3100fps

Win70 in 270win 24" barrel
56.4 re19, 140sst @ 3000

Rem Sendero 300win 26"? barrel
76.8 re22, 180ab @ 3150

Guesse what I'm askin' is, are there better bullets / powders for long range these rigs will handle? I don't remember the twist rates. The barrels are all factory, and I'll look "em up.

Thanks

 

[James Jones]

In all three guns you could rechamber them to the next step up in case capacity

from 243 to 6mm Rem Ackley improved that should give you another 150-200fps and clean up a little bit of the throat.

from 270 Win to 270 Weatherby mag , that would give you at least 200fps , I'd also swith bullets from the 140 to the 150gr SST , you will get alot better performance with this setup , their just no replacement for dissplacement , granted the 270Wby doesn't realy shine out of a 24" barrel but it will be a noticable set up from the 270 win balisticaly

from 300 win to 300 RUM and that would give you a bit more speed also. , in this gun I would switch from the 180 accubond to the 200 accubond , you should be able to get the same speeds maybe a little bit more with the 300RUM than the 300 Win and the bullets will have a alot highter BC that translates into alot more energy down range with less drop and wind drift.

 

[royinidaho]

I was wondering how I might improve the external ballistics of my "regular" rifles.

These are the rigs and loads.
CZ 550 in 243 24.5" barrel
Load: 46.4 re19 & 87vmax @ 3100fps

Nothing to say re: the 243. All of my experiences have been bad with that cartridge. Thus I shy away from it.

Win70 in 270win 24" barrel
56.4 re19, 140sst @ 3000

I always have something to say about the 270 Win. RL-22, up towards 58 grains and the Sierra 130/135s and Hornday 140 BTSP Interlocks provide great accuracy and another 200 FPS of velocity with OK pressures.

Norma MRP it would be better than RL-22 which are supposed to be the same powder but different quality control thus the differences between lots.

With a decent scope and proper shooting setup she'll be good farther out there than you would think. Well over 700 yds.

Rem Sendero 300win 26"? barrel
76.8 re22, 180ab @ 3150

For this one I'm talking with no experience in 30 cal but I'd seriously consider any heavier higher bc bullet. What you listed seems plenty fine for long range hunting. To push it more may be to go heavier/slower/higher bc. Example: Berger 210 VLDs

Guesse what I'm askin' is, are there better bullets / powders for long range these rigs will handle? I don't remember the twist rates. The barrels are all factory, and I'll look "em up.

Thanks

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[grit]

James,
Thanks for the reply. Not looking to rechamber at this point. Looking for better bullets / powders. That said, I would consider it for the 243. Hmm, why not A I a 270? Course out of the factory 24" tube, would you get much?

Roy,
Bad experience with the 243? I find the little round impressive. I bring it to have two guns when I shoot. I've rung my 1150 gong with it a lot. It seems to perform way better'n it ought to. No recoil, rabbits spread all over, coyotes dead right now. Antelope, mule deer... Magpies, crows, pds... And throw me in jail, I'd take a lung shot at elk with it.

The 270 is my "go to" gun. It's never let me down. I need no convinvcing it's a capable of 700 yard plus. I'll look at your bullets and powders. Thanks!

When I was doing my load development for my 300win the gentleman next to me was running the 210 berger. He said he had to limit the velocity to the point it negated the advantage of the higher bc to keep it from coming apart. They were sure accurate in his rifle though. The win is my "elk" rifle also. So, I want to know I'm shooting a tough bullet. I want exit wounds! Anyway, I'll take another look at the drop / drift data.

 

[goodgrouper]

The 210 bergers can be pushed as fast as you can make them go and they will not blow up unless you either have a 3 groove barrel or if your throat is beyond nasty. Even then, it would be difficult to scatter them.

The 87 grain vmax is the highest bc bullet that will safely stabilize in a factory twist of 10". Good choice here. However, I'm with Roy. Never seen a 243 give good consistent results day in and day out. That's not to say there isn't some out there that do, I just haven't seen one yet.

The 140sst is also a very high bc bullet and works great for long range. 7mmrhb used a dirty old 270 and a 140 grain accubond (which is similiar in bc) to dump a big bodied muley at 746 yards last fall. I dang near could put my fist through the exit hole. Whoever said a 270 won't work for long range doesn't know their butt from their elbow! Most of those guys who say it won't do 1000 are probably thinking their pet 308 winchester is the best 1k gun ever. Yet, you run the numbers in a ballistic program and there isn't even a comparison between the two.

Your bullet in the 300 winnie is fine. It is flatter to 1k than the 210 Berger although the Berger does have less wind drift and more ummphh. But I have shot through both shoulders of fat cow elk near 1000 yards with the 180 ab and bt and it worked great. Wouldn't have died any better with a bigger bullet.

 

[grit]

Thanks GG,
Pretty much in line with my thinking. I don't know what barrel the guy shooting the Bergers had. Maybe I'll give 'em a try. Personally, I want exit wounds. Did your bullets exit at that range?

I only have one concern about the sst. I've shot a couple coyotes the bullets didn't exit on. I may switch to the AB.

I've never heard of 243 issues. What kind of issues? I'd appreciate a heads up. I'm happy with mine. But, I'm not you.

 

[Down Under Hunter]

I agree with your thinking on the sst. I used the 168 30 cal for 3 or 4 kills on sambar deer at ranges between 350-450 yards and none of them exited. All left little signs of a hit with very well placed fatal shots to the engine room. Quickly changed to the tsx 168 and had complete pass throughs on the last 6 kills out to 500 yards. I am yet to recover one !

Cheers

 

[goodgrouper]

Thanks GG,
Pretty much in line with my thinking. I don't know what barrel the guy shooting the Bergers had. Maybe I'll give 'em a try. Personally, I want exit wounds. Did your bullets exit at that range?

I only have one concern about the sst. I've shot a couple coyotes the bullets didn't exit on. I may switch to the AB.

I've never heard of 243 issues. What kind of issues? I'd appreciate a heads up. I'm happy with mine. But, I'm not you.

Sometimes they exit and sometimes they don't. When they don't, they are usually just stuck on the hide on the far side.
I don't care much if my bullets pass through or don't just as long as they cause massive internal damage on their way.

243's seem to be hard to keep in tune. Something about the internal combustion plumes caused by shape of case and powder to bore ratios. ONe day they shoot ok, the next, not so good in my experience.
I'm a firm believer in matching case capacity to bullet size and weight to get optimal powder performance and the 243 and 6x.284 are way past 6mm size.

Kind of like dropping a supercharged 393 stroker motor in a Chevy Aveo. Sure goes fast but it's hard to keep it going straight down the strip!

 

[grit]

I bought some 210 bergers to try with my 300win. Only powder I have on hand is re22. How about load suggestions (any powder)? I'm running my 180ab's around 3170. I figured I could get the bergers to around 2970. Is this correct?

I figured the extra energy would give me another 250 yards of on game performance, provided I can put it in game.

 

[Buffalobob]

Just a few comments in general about going down the road you are going. You can spend a lot of money and become very frustrated so here is what I would suggest you consider.

1. Have each rifle recrowned. It is cheaper than buying a box of bullets and can be done in a day if you make an appointment.

2. When at the gunsmith ask him to check the bolt lug bearing surfaces to see how much contact you are getting. He can just smear some goo on the lugs and look and tell you and it doesn't cost you anything. You can spend a lot of money testing bullets and the gun will not shoot heavy bullets because of uneven lug contact.

3. Might as well have the trigger adjusted while you are there. Price is about the same as a box of bullets.

4. Have him bore scope the barrel to see if you have been doing a good job cleaning it.

So you are now into the gunsmith about $200 per gun which is the same as two boxes of bullets and two different bottles of powder. I did not recommend bedding the rifles being as I assume you have already done that.

After you have done those thing, head on down the road of bullet and powder testing.

 

[grit]

BB,
Thanks for the tip.