match bullets on game

[jmcs]

Does anybody out there have experience hunting at medium ranges with Sierra .270 135 gr HPBT for hunting?

 

[Eric Stecker]

Experience with Berger

jmcs,

The title of your thread compels me to respond. I of course can't help you with the SMK however our Berger Match VLD have been very successful on big game. I'll gladly send a free 30 minute DVD showing what our Match VLD does when used for hunting. Send an email listing your interest in the DVD and your shipping address to [email protected]. For more on this we were recently written up in the August 2007 issue of Handloader.

We do not have a 270 cal bullet right now but will have three different weights made in the next few months.

Regards,
Eric Stecker
Berger Bullets

 

[magicofmt]

Great News

What weights will the 3 new 270 cal bullets be? Looking for 180 gr.

Thanks!

 

[rifletuner]

Eric

Great to see you on this forum. Your DVD is a good source of info, as in the Barsness article.

With regard to the 270 bullets, the sooner the better as far as I am concerned. What weights will these be offered in?

 

[jmcs]

Eric,
Thanks for the offer - I have emailed Andrea and look forward to the DVD. I am also keen to know what weights your .270 bullets will come in. It is a very popular cal. in South Africa. I shoot everything non dangerous with mine. It is a Savage 110 action on an Anschutz barrel - wonderful weapon.
Thanks
Dave

 

[LRHWAL]

JCMS, no experience in .277, but quite a few of us in .308 Win and .300 UM and 7mm (Rem Mag and .280 Rem) and Bergers in .300 WM.

Good results all round, but weight was 168gr up to 220gr.

I've even used A-Max on smaller game in my .300 WM - Blesbuck and Springbuck, with great results.

As you know, not everyone feels the same about it.

I was required to shoot an Eland wounded by another in our party earlier this year at around 15 yards I think it was, with a 210gr Berger (MV 2830 or so). Right on the shoulder - he was dead in seconds. Do I recommend a Berger for something as heavily boned in the forequarters as Eland? No, but it did what was required (that time). I can't tell you how large a pice of bullet (or if all of it) made it to the vitals.

At medium / longer ranges risk of breakup reduces, but hitting heavy shoulder bones remain a risk I'd think. It depends a lot on what you are hunting.

WL

 

[Eric Stecker]

The first 270 cal bullets will be 130 gr, 140 gr and 150 gr. We will likely make lighter and heavier bullets in 270 cal but they will be down the road (a year or more). We have several new bullets coming out over the next twelve months so it will be a while before we can revisit the 270 again.

Regarding close up shots at high MV, we traveled to West Virginia to hunt wild pigs with Richard Mann. Richard is the developer of the Bullet Test TUBE and has tested just about every bullet made. Before we started hunting Richard believed that our bullet would act like any cup and core bullet producing rapid expansion. It has been Richards findings that every bullet (including high weight retaining bullets) start their expansion upon impact.

We shot 5 large wild hogs on that trip. The shots were taken from 20 feet to about 75 yards. Four of the hogs dropped where they were shot. One hog that I shot after it had been spooked ran about 50 feet. We found during the autopsy that this hog had a hole in its heart I could easily slide two fingers into. How it managed to run after the massive amount of internal damage to the vitals surprised everyone. The guides said that they have never seen 5 hogs drop like those that we shot.

To test the VLD further, we set one of the larger hogs up so that we could shoot it right through the shoulder and hip bones. Both shots were taken from 10 inches away and were shot with a 6.5mm 140 gr VLD (it was the highest velocity load we had at the time at just about 3,100 fps). Both shots penetrated through each bone and created wound channels that were 15" and 18" deep. The amount of internal tissue damage was tremendous. (For those of you who have shot a hog in the rear hip area you know how much fun we had doing that particular autopsy)

I certainly don't recommend shooting them in the hip. We wanted to see if the bullet would blow up on the surface and it did not. During this trip we fired shots into the Bullet Test TUBE that Richard brought with him. We found that the VLD is the only bullet that penetrates 1" to 1.5" in the Test TUBE (In animals typical penetration is 2" to 3"). This is a result that Richard did not expect and was the key proof he needed to understand that the Berger Match VLD is in fact usable and very successful for game.

Regards,
Eric

 

[Ernie]

Eric,
Thank you for all the info and welcome to the forum.
I have not used your VLD for game yet, but have used SMK's, A-Max's and Richard's Wildcat bullets with success. I have a 7mm Rem Mag Imp in a rear grip MOA Maximum specialty pistol that likes your 180 grainers and hope to use it this year.

Any advice for the 140 grain in the 6.5 as regards to minimum impact velocity? Same question for the 7mm 180 grain.

 

[Buffalobob]

Eric

This is a part of a story I posted back in May about the 6mm 115 Berger and the 240 Wby. The bullet penetrates like crazy and blows big holes as it goes through.

So, we were sitting there looking at the two pigs down in the clearing when pigs showed up in the corner at 550 yards. I spun up the scope dial and swung the barrel around and the crosshairs lined up on a very big pig. All of the stone mason work I had done laying the flat rocks for the gun rest was going to pay off big time. Another pig came walking into the corner and went past the big pig and then turn back and went behind him. Thus there were now two pigs lined up but were facing opposite directions. The 240 Wby with the 30 inch barrel gives the 115 Berger a very good launch and the Berger will penetrate a very long ways even at ranges past 800 yards. I felt very sure that at a measly 550 yards I could kill the front pig and break the hind quarters down on the back pig and then finish it. Lacking any experience with pigs I did not realize exactly how strong a pig was with just its front legs working.

I now had the crosshairs on the front pig who was facing left and the bullet was going to pass through him and hit the hind quarters of the back pig who was facing right. Finally Chris gave the command to fire and I broke the trigger. The front pig was DRT and just flopped over as the 115 Berger passed through him and the back pig was now broken down as planned and just needed a finishing shot. Therein was where things got interesting and because I shoot a mauser single shot action, I have to spend a little time off of the scope, carefully placing the next round so the rim is under the extractor or else I will get a jam. So when I got back on the scope there was some confusion as to where the pig was and I wound up shooting a bush which refused to fall over and die. I got to laughing and joking about killing the bush and after a short conversation with the spotter I figured out where the pig really was and launched a round and it is unclear where it landed but the pig continued to crawl toward the trees so I reloaded again and continued to laugh and make jokes and try to shoot at the same time. I got the crosshairs settled and was starting to squeeze when Rimfire shot. I saw a puff of white limestone dust out past the pig and believed he had missed, so I finished the squeeze and even as deaf as I am and with earmuffs on I heard the Berger impact hard. So the big sow finally fell on over, deader than dead, and there were no more pigs to shoot. Plus it was now dark. Fun was over!!!!!

Autopsy of body parts of the second pig showed my first bullet had not only passed through the first large hog but had broken the rear quarters of the sow and still exited that pig too. There was a small piece of the jacket found in the exit hole so there wasn't much bullet left when it exited the second pig, but just enough. Rimfires's LSR 300WSM with the 175 SMK had broken a rib going in and another rib exiting and then caused the puff of chalk dust I had seen. My last bullet had hit the neck right on the leading edge of the shoulder and apparently hit something pretty hard being as I found a piece of the lead core in the wound channel.

Trying to make a "reverse twofer" on hogs at 550 yards might not have been the most intelligent idea I have ever had, but it was some of the most fun I have had in a long time. I might have shot a little better too if I could have quit laughing.

 

[bailey1474]

I don't know the extent of your testing, but you might want to consider doing some lower velocity tests. I had a bad experience w/the 105 gr 6mm VLD on a whitetail doe this past fall. Here's the link:

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19433

I think the bullets effectiveness may not be limited by too much velocity but too little.

I'm not bashing your bullets. Just stating my experience on game. I have shot some phenominal groups w/this bullet but I don't think the 6-250 enough pumpkin to open that bullet up @ longer ranges.

 

[steve smith]

Does anybody out there have experience hunting at medium ranges with Sierra .270 135 gr HPBT for hunting?

The answer to your question is yes!

I've use the .277" 135 Mk on many deer over the past 10years. Ranges from 100-850yds. None have ever failed. (ie. dead deer).

They are accurate and kill deer very good!

 

[davewilson]

i've seen 2 examples where the sierra failed on game.both shots were under 100 yards. both blew up with no/very little penetration.i used to hang out in Saskatchewan and spend 5 weeks hunting deer.it was with an outfitter so you got to see a little bit of everything.first was a mule deer that wasn't supposed to be shot, but he nailed him right on the shoulder blade. i know this because 3 hours and 2 miles later we were looking at each other as he laid under a spruce tree and my boss stuck him with his yellow handled knife as he tried to get away.a couple small pieces of whatever went inside the ribs but most of the bullet blew up on the outside.

the second example was an impact on the middle of the backbone,as the deer( a 170 whitetail) was quartering away. bullet hit the backstrap about the bottom of the backbone and never even broke it's back. made about a tennis ball sized hole in the strap, but again, never even went through the backbone. just pieces of jacket all over. after seeing these 2 examples it was hard for me to put trust in match bullets for game.

both examples were shot with a 270 and were under 100 yards. to be honest, i'll never own a 270. not saying there's anything wrong with it, but the bad taste will always be there.

my personal opinion is not to use match bullets smaller than 30 caliber for big game and always the heavy per caliber bullets.

 

[specweldtom]

The info on the Bergers is great. I like their bullets in .223 and 7mm, but haven't hunted with them. In 1985, I started hunting with Sierra MKHP, but only in .30 cal. Have only killed whitetails with them, but have absolute confidence in them. Have used .300 WM, .300 H & H, and .30 x .378, all with 190 gr MKHP's, and all lung shots. Some were knocked down and stayed down, some ran 20 feet - 20 yards. Don't know if they went down and got up or not; enough recoil and muzzle flash that I don't see the hit or the immediate aftermath. Longest shot was 280 yds, shortest was 100 yds on a hard-running buck. My brother saw that hit and said he was in mid-air, and looked like he was hit by a freight train.

Nearly every page in the Sierra manual says that MK's are not recommended for hunting. I wouldn't hunt thick skinned or heavy boned game with them (except for hogs), but I suspect that my 300 gr MKHP .338 x .378 load could handle Black bear or even Elk very well.

Last time I checked, Berger wasn't making anything bigger than .30 cal.

Good thread, Tom

 

[davewilson]

Spec, keep watching that Berger web site. those 338 bullets are coming, end of this year or early next! many are anxiously waiting.