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Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

 
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  #204  
Old 10-22-2011, 04:06 PM
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Re: Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRaTxn View Post
And the bottom line is that in Africa if you miss and there is even the hint of a hit = you pay the thousand$ of dollars in trophy fee and get no animal.
Its one or the other, if you miss thats fine, if you hit the animal and blood is found and if anyone can the african trackers will find the blood, then the animal is wounded. Money aside I believe one is morally responsible to try and recover that animal. I have had to use follow up shots on wounded zebra and wildebeest both species known for their toughness and a raking TX heart shot was all I got. I was using a 375 H&H with Swift A frames and that concluded things. I dont know how well a buger bullet would have performed under those circumstances! In both cases my first shot was slightly off.

And yes there is a very big diff between a whitetail or similar sized animal v/s a tough african antelope like a wildebeest or zebra dont even talk about cape buffalo so while burgers will kill these smaller animals outright due to the explosive effect I am not so sure if that would be the case on bigger tougher animals.

And what happens if you mess it up and I dont care how good a shot anyone is, if you hunt long enough you will screw up a shot, and more so at longer ranges.

I don't have anything against burger bullets I am just questioning their effect especially on larger game. I have seen the videos by Best of the West and others and while the game drops in their tracks with high shoulder shots which paralyses the spine, I am not so sure what the outcome would be if a shot went off!

IMHO i believe that a SN bullet should expland but not explode completely.
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  #205  
Old 10-22-2011, 06:03 PM
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Re: Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

Quote:
Originally Posted by kazreddy View Post
I don't have anything against burger bullets I am just questioning their effect especially on larger game.
I don't mean any disrespect to you but it is Berger not burger. Most of those who question Berger's effectiveness as a quickly lethal bullet are those who have never tried them before.

I have killed many animals personally and have seen them autopsied. Out of several dozen I have seen myself only a small few were spine shot. Any bullet can drop game when the spine is hit. Ours does so even if the spine is not hit. This is due to the tremendous amount of energy that is dumped into the internals of the animal.

Not every animal that is hit with a Berger will drop in its tracks but I can assure you that every animal shot with a Berger dies from the wound channel created. This is not based on marketing hype but actual field evidence. Like I said, try them and then tell me that they don't work for you.

Regards,
Eric
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  #206  
Old 10-22-2011, 06:28 PM
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Re: Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

Honestly I was hesitant to use the Bergers on game bigger than deer but the first elk I saw shot at 412 yards put the bullet through the shoulder, dropped the cow in her tracks, completely destroyed the lung cavity and left a great exit wound. She was shot with a 185 grain VLD from a 300 WSM.

I used the same combo to shoot a spike elk this year that was looking straight at me at 50 yards, I just centered the cross hairs in his chest and he fell over stone dead. Bergers work extremely well when they're used as they should be.
  #207  
Old 10-22-2011, 06:49 PM
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Re: Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

Hi Eric,

Sorry for mispronouncing the name. Guess I will have to give it a try.

Cheers

Arjun Reddy
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  #208  
Old 10-23-2011, 09:39 PM
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Re: Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

There is a Kiwi PH that has a website that lists different bullets in different calibers to shoot different game species.

Bullets tend to vary within the type, caliber and weight from most manufacturers. A bullet type that behaves one way at 140 grains may be a lot different at 160 grains in 7mm caliber. The lighter is often designed to be more frangible while the heavier may be much tougher, though both carry the same name.

The Nosler Partition is both "explosive" and "tough". There are better bullets in either category, but not in both categories taken together overall. About 40% of a Partition will fly apart soon after impact and 60% will barrel on through in most cases, as it has done for the past 60+ years and as his actual tests proved on real animals. It is the granddaddy of premium hunting bullets and is still the standard to be compared against, and still the best bullet for more things under more circumstances than anything else you can name. It does not have a high ballistic coefficient, but that is a meaningless measurement inside of 200 yards where most game is shot.

His actual experience with his own clients proved that the .270 Winchester was the most successful caliber on NZ game. Something he would not have guessed without having seen the results repeated many times. It seems that Jack O'Connor got it right after all. He also had lots of respect for the 7x57mm Mauser, and I got a lot of insight into reloading for my 7x57 from his website. The Hornady A-Max is a nice Berger replacement in that caliber at a better price and easier to source locally.

Terminal Ballistics Research is his website, and it's about shooting real game animals with real bullets, not gelatin packs with lots of interpolations and assumptions. BTW, he found the deadliest bullet in .223 Remington on goats to be the FMJ tumbling bullet, and he has the photos to prove it. It seems that Eugene Stoner got that one right as well. You just need the correct twist rate to utilize that round. The improvement on Stoner's idea was made by FN in the 62 grain SS109, or M855 in US milspeak. It tumbles then breaks in half, but again the correct twist rate is required (which US M16 rifles do not utilize). Made to pierce armor better than the 7.62mm M80 armor piercing round, it also displays the flesh disrupting power of the tumbling bullet (times two after breakup). Police sniper tests proved it to be a good round if you knew how to take advantage of it. I met a guy that has used it a lot for killing our Montana plains game. 9" twist rate is correct, and the longer the barrel the better, as speed improves bullet upset on impact. However, it is not very accurate (2.5 MOA from my own FN produced samples) and not intended for shots over 300 yards if tumbling and breakup is expected. There are fake Turkish M855 rounds, and I have some of them. Totally different animals, and thay are headstamped "SS109". I never saw any real ones headstamped "SS109". Just a Turkish sales gimmick to fool the fools. Real SS109/M855 is tested with a magnet for the steel penetrator core under the jacket. Turkish rounds are lead core and fail this test.
  #209  
Old 10-24-2011, 06:07 AM
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Re: Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

Well not only did the 300 wsm perform well on an elk breaking both shoulders and exiting at 139 yards, also dropped 300 # mule deer in it's tracks, dropped 3 coyotes at 300-400 yards, 165 gr ttsx performed flawlessly, will use it next week on bear and Lu whitetail in 2 weeks, next year going to try the 185 vld for comparison
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  #210  
Old 10-24-2011, 06:11 AM
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Re: Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

Quote:
Originally Posted by FAL Shot View Post
I haven't tried Berger bullets, but I probably will. It will only be for long range shots if I do. The performance seems to mimic Ballsitic Tip performance with a delayed reaction if it hits bone. My big beef is that I hardly ever see them on the shelf. Nosler and Hornady are by far the most popular bullets for reloading around here.
FAL Shot,

Have you had an opportunity to try Berger's yet? Frankly, I am glad that there are options for hunters. No single brand is going to meet every hunters needs including Bergers. However, results have shown that our bullets do very well when used. Strangely enough we don't do as well when they are discussed rather than tried.

I know our bullets aren't for everyone. I am working on the availability situation and this is improving but frankly Bergers will never be as plentiful or inexpensive as Hornady's. We have a different approach than they do. I'm not suggesting one approach is better than the other as there are benefits to both but the approaches are different.

Our bullets are very effective at close range as are many other hunting bullets (and not specifically hunting designated bullets) as you point out. Each hunter needs to consider their situation and select a bullet that works best for them. I offer that it doesn't make other options lesser if not selected but just not what that given hunter decided to go to the field with.

When selected, Bergers typically produce a result that makes those who try them happy enough to use them again. Especially those who may have an opportunity or desire to stretch their effectively lethal range.

Regards,
Eric
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