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Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

 
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  #15  
Old 06-16-2009, 06:00 AM
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Re: Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

Quote:
At close range and high impact velocities, fragmenting bullets are susceptible to failure.
phorwath,
I'm curious about what you mean by your statement above, in particular, what you mean by 'failure'. Are you saying that in such close range, high velocity impacts the bullets 'fail' by expanding too rapidly, or that they fail to expand?

Noel asks an interesting question, one that I think many people would answer differently. Most shooters agree on what merits of external ballistics are desirable (minimize drop and wind deflection, maximize energy, etc). However, I'm learning that there is a lot of disagreement about what terminal effects are 'desirable'. The spectrum goes from shooters who want 100% weight retention, no bullet deformation and max penetration, to the other extreme being rapid expansion and fragmentation.
Of course, as phorwath points out, the 'ideal' terminal bullet performance probably depends on the kind of animal, how it's oriented, and where you hit it.
Even in the high end academic papers I've turned up about bullet lethality, there is much disagreement among the scientists about what attributes of terminal bullet performance are most lethal. Every model that tries to 'rank' bullet lethality according to some parameters (energy, momentum, velocity, etc) is contested by some 'expert'. Turns out death is not easy to calculate.

So I'm interested in responses to Noels question as well. What do you, hunters, consider to be 'ideal' terminal bullet performance? How much does it depend on the details of the shot?

-Bryan
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  #16  
Old 06-16-2009, 09:19 AM
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Re: Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

Noel,

Since I shoot animals in the chest cavity I do not lose any meat due to the explosive strikes from the little Berger missiles.....and it seems that the shank of the bullet stays together well enough to give an exit. So yes I like the explosive hits, but do not think it is necessary.
The Berger is the best compromise out there for those shooter who want the bullet to dump all its energy in the animal and for those that want an exit wound for blood trailing. I have no idea as to the weight retention of the Bergers as I have never recovered one. At least the jacket seems to always exit the other side even on animals quartering to me.
My experiance is limited to whitetails and pigs.
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  #17  
Old 06-16-2009, 09:24 AM
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Re: Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

My choices are dictated by where I'll be hunting to some extent. I prefer bullets that are explosive to semi explosive in most cases because I don't want any chance of it deflecting(on a miss) or continuing through the target and having any chance of collateral damage. I don't live and hunt where one's bullet can bounce off of anything and travel for miles without seeing civilization. No one is ever going to make the end all perfect bullet for every situation. It wouldn't be a good thing if all the manufacturers trended toward one type of bullet. We as hunters would lose our options. I also don't care to some extent what the BC is either. If I can predict my drop and drift why do I care if I need to dial in a few more clicks? Now don't get me wrong I'm a huge Berger fan and that's because they give me the best of a several worlds.

that's the point of view from this seat.
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  #18  
Old 06-16-2009, 10:01 AM
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Re: Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

Thanks for the responses guys... especially Paul. You cut right to the chase on the issue of controlled-expansion biased projectiles. Cost is the rub, and I do not have a price finalized on these little buggers, but they will easily exceed that of a Berger.

Ironically, "explosive" impact results are much less costly to obtain in a compound-copper solid. Can I safely infer that the "flexibility" you folks want to preserve in ELR hunting includes a fragmentation round?

Best,
Noel
  #19  
Old 06-16-2009, 10:04 AM
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Re: Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

Quote:
Originally Posted by noel carlson View Post
Can I safely infer that the "flexibility" you folks want to preserve in ELR hunting includes a fragmentation round?

Best,
Noel
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  #20  
Old 06-16-2009, 10:51 AM
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Re: Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

Noel,
What I would like in a bullet can be described easily.
Flight & accuracy of a Berger.
Terminal performance of a Nosler Partition.

dk
  #21  
Old 06-16-2009, 11:47 AM
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Re: Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

DK,

As I understand the terminal performance characteristics of the Nosler Partition, the ZA projectile already developed is, at least, equal in the effective controlled-expansion velocity envelope.

With a qualifier that the improvements come at a cost, the accuracy and useful long range ZA potential exceeds all jacketed lead-core projectiles (without qualification).

jmason,

Is it very important to you that a frangible hunting projectile duplicates the trajectory of a target equivalent?

- Noel
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