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Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

 
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  #99  
Old 07-24-2009, 11:30 AM
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Re: Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

Quote:
Originally Posted by guns_and_labs View Post
So, .300 WinMag, elk, 50-500 yards... Berger VLD or Nosler Accubond? ... both shoot well under 1 MOA at those distances...
Guns_and_labs,

The Berger Hunting VLDs are used regularly to take elk, moose, bear, buffalo and other large game. We receive tremendous amounts of feedback from hunters who are taking large game from all over the world. The feedback is the same and it is that the bullets "work great".

I am not dismissing the concerns expressed by those who deliberate on such things but the actual results in the field are unquestionable.

Frankly, we have intentionally downplayed the performance of our bullets on game. I have seen far too many situations where a product is introduced into a new application with great bravado and acclaim. Typically, these products fall short of marketing hype. Even if the product works well it can be viewed as a failure since it did not live up to expectations set by overly anxious marketing folks (who probably never used the product).

We have intentionally kept the "performance claims" to a minimum and focused our message on how the bullet works on impact. We then leave it to the hunter to decide whether they want this type of performance on their hunt.

I've observed an evolution of opinions about our bullets being used for hunting that few people are in a position to witness. It started with "you can't use Match bullets for hunting". Then it switched to "well they work great on deer but won't work on anything bigger". Recently it morphed into "Berger's are great for long range but won't work up close". All of these opinions are being proven in the field to be incorrect.

It is true that the bulk of the message about using Berger's for hunting has come from The Best of the West TV show which specializes in long range hunting. However this does not mean that our bullets are only capable of success at long range. Instead of coming out with a major ad campaign on this fact we are letting the hunters find out for themselves that this is true. I believe it is better for someone to learn on their own that something exceeds their expectations.

Having said all that, it is true that our bullets work the way they do. Shots taken up close will result in more energy being applied to the internals of the animal through fragmentation. Fortunately, this result is more than capable of putting larger game down quickly. We will leave it to the hunter to decide if this is the manner in which they want to dispatch their game.

Some may say that other bullets are just as capable of putting an animal down at short range as the Berger Hunting VLD. I will not dispute this point. I am not suggesting that ours works better than theirs in this specific situation (close range shots). What I am saying is that they work differently and that they DO work.

The Berger Hunting VLD is capable of taking game of all sizes (except extreme size game) at close and long range. This is a fact that is being proven again and again in the field. Our marketing goal is to educate the hunter on exactly how our bullet works on impact so they can decide for themselves if they want to give it a try. Once they do the results speak for themselves.

Regards,
Eric
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  #100  
Old 07-24-2009, 02:52 PM
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Re: Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Stecker View Post
Guns_and_labs,

The Berger Hunting VLDs are used regularly to take elk, moose, bear, buffalo and other large game. We receive tremendous amounts of feedback from hunters who are taking large game from all over the world. The feedback is the same and it is that the bullets "work great".

{snip}

The Berger Hunting VLD is capable of taking game of all sizes (except extreme size game) at close and long range. This is a fact that is being proven again and again in the field. Our marketing goal is to educate the hunter on exactly how our bullet works on impact so they can decide for themselves if they want to give it a try. Once they do the results speak for themselves.

Regards,
Eric

Thanks, Eric. Now, another question. I inherited some handloads for the .300 WinMag. I know they are Berger VLDs, but I don't know if they are "hunting VLD" or "match VLD". But they are WAY too accurate to waste. Can I tell the difference visually or if I dissect one?
  #101  
Old 07-24-2009, 05:40 PM
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Re: Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

Quote:
Originally Posted by guns_and_labs View Post
Can I tell the difference visually or if I dissect one?

The easiest way to find out is if you know when the ammo was loaded. If the rounds were loaded prior to 2009 they are the Hunting bullets. The thicker jackets for the 30 cal Target bullets started production in late 2008.

If you have any of the original bullet boxes around you can look at the label. In this case you want to see if the label says "Thick", "Target" or "Target Only". These designations are for bullets made on thicker jackets. If your boxes do not list any of these descriptives on the label then they are the Hunting bullets.

You can cut the bullet in half lengthwise and compare it to a Target bullet cut in half. The Target bullet will have a thicker jacket wall through the core area. The challenge with doing this is to cut the bullet in half as close to the center line as possible. A cut that is not on the center line will show a thicker jacket than it actually is.

Another way to check a bullet is to chop off the boat tail. Cut the bullet like you would slice bread (one time) just forward of the boat tail on the bearing surface. Do this same thing to a Target bullet trying to cut as close to the same spot as the other bullet. The cross section for the Target bullet jacket will be thicker. This is tricky because the jacket walls are tapered after a short portion. If you get too far away from the boat tail the thickness will be misleading because of the taper.

These are things easily explained with a sketch but difficult to relay with words. If you are not tracking let me know and I'll think of another way to explain.

Regards,
Eric
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To strengthen your shooting skills go to the range.
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  #102  
Old 07-24-2009, 05:55 PM
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Re: Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Stecker View Post
The easiest way to find out is if you know when the ammo was loaded. If the rounds were loaded prior to 2009 they are the Hunting bullets. The thicker jackets for the 30 cal Target bullets started production in late 2008.
Late spring/summer 2008 -- guess I'm good to go. Back to the range to practice...
  #103  
Old 08-01-2009, 12:04 AM
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Re: Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

Rarely do I read all the way through a thread as long as this one, but despite the occasional sniping and hype, I found it very educational. One thing I gleaned is that I will probably do well to stick with the Accubond for the hunting I'm doing, mostly because I'm limited to my .308 Win for the time being and that seems right for 100-600 yard hunting...and for preserving as much meat as possible. I'm definitely a meat hunter but like getting out farther than max. PBR. For under 100, which I've found to be the case in dense cover, I've resolved to carry a few rounds loaded with Partitions because I had a bad experience jumping an elk at 35 yards last year. It took three 165 gr. BTs to finish her off because they just kept drilling pencil holes. (In contrast, the BTs were great on a cow the year before at 200-250 yards and on two antelope this past season at 310 and 260 yards).

I'm definitely going to try the Bergers and some Hornady Interbonds because my one beef with the Accubonds is that I can't keep them sub-MOA at 300 yards. Maybe that's just me but I'm shooting a lot of 3-3.5" groups at that range.

To conclude: I doubt there's any one bullet now or ever that will satisfy every hunter or even one hunter all the time. As far as the original article goes, my opinion is that Barnes should stick to promoting what their bullets do best and not try to be something they ain't. As for Berger, I have never shot any but I am pretty impressed with what I've heard and with what I've read, especially Bryan's stuff here and on his own site, as well as on the Berger site. That's why I'll try them, despite having to order them* and my reservations about meat damage. I'm not particularly interested in the Barnes because the BCs don't come close to the Accubonds (let alone Bergers) and I already have accuracy issues to overcome.

Jon

*The local places are out of Bergers and any .30 cal Noslers or Hornadys that I'm interested in. But there are plenty of Barnes on the shelves.
  #104  
Old 08-04-2009, 03:43 PM
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Re: Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

Great article Eric. I particularly appreciated the gentlemanly way you went about things and the respect you showed in the words you chose - well done! The message I took from the article was that of horses for courses. Barnes do well in a particular application and should stay there or adapt. I am sorely tempted to try your bullets when me stash of Sierra matchkings run out. What weights are they available in for the 270? The Sierras I am using show the same results as your VLD bullet - I do not shoot much beyond 500yds but the results are great.

Regards
Dave
South Africa
  #105  
Old 08-04-2009, 06:20 PM
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Re: Barnes's Tests Prove Why Berger Hunting VLDs Are So Successful By Eric Stecker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Schenck View Post
What weights are they available in for the 270?
Dave,

Thank you for your kind words. We currently make the 270 cal in 130 gr, 140 gr and 150 gr. All are VLDs and all are part of the Hunting line. We do not make a 270 cal for target shooting.

Regards,
Eric
__________________
To strengthen your shooting skills go to the range.
To strengthen the shooting sports take a non-shooter with you.

Berger Bullets
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