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Are wolves really the problem

 
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  #85  
Old 09-02-2013, 12:06 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Townsend, Montana.
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Re: Are wolves really the problem

Sometimes reading back through other posts a member makes will shed light on things. There are, in some cases, are patterns that reveal their true views on things.
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  #86  
Old 09-02-2013, 12:10 PM
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Western Montana
Posts: 45
Re: Are wolves really the problem

Here in Western Montana, we only have about 1/10 the elk we had 15 years ago when the wolves were introduced. The "official numbers" are skewed in favor of wolves.
It has everything to do with the wolf introduction. Under subsistence conditions a wolf may kill only 20 elk a year, but when you factor in the fact that they kill elf for sport, the number is many times that amount. The sport killing of elk by wolves has tapered way off, not because wolves got religion, but because now there are so many more wolves and so few elk that they tend to have to eat all they kill.

Elk populations are still going down and wolf populations are still going up.

Even if we were allowed to hunt wolves 24 hours a day and 365 days a year using fully automatic weapons, silenced weapons, spotlights, electronic calls, helicopters, hounds, 2 way radios and bait, we would never be able to get the elk populations back up to what they were. Why? because if wolf populations dropped to 25% of what they are now, they would make up the difference in damage by sport killing and they would go completely nocturnal.

The only way to solve the wolf problem is to do as our much wiser ancestors did and use poison and biological warfare. That is what responsible wildlife managers should be advocating.
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  #87  
Old 09-02-2013, 12:27 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Posts: 131
Re: Are wolves really the problem

I have been reading this thread and have been trying to figure out how to chime in without jumping into an arguement. This thread asked the question " are wolves really the problem?" The answer I have to that question is absolutely yes. I will be honest when the the reintroduction first came about in Idaho in 1995 I was all for it. I was young and had no clue as to how these preditors were going to affect our elk and deer herds. I saw nothing wrong with the reintroduction. By 2001 I was starting to see an issue growing. Elk herds were getting smaller the elk were acting different and were more scattered than I was used to seeing. I really thought nothing of it at the time. I hunted an area in Idaho that had the largest herd in the state roaming at that time. Elk hunting was awsome. We would see so many elk every year. stories I can tell my children cause they will never get to see what i saw in there lifetime.

By 2006 my elk hunting areas were really beginning to take a hurt. I saw more wolf sign every year. Started hearing the wolves more every year. Elk herds were dropping and dropping fast. even faster in other units. something here was definately wrong. it was not due to over hunting cause fish and game had dropped all cow hunts in that area for a couple of years now. the success rates were dropping every year and more and more wolves were being spotted.

in 2010 I went into the back country of Idaho for a 10 day hunt n that 10 days we heard a pack of at least 12 wolves and a couple singles and another pack of 6. there were atleast 20 wolves in this one area. the elk were scarse. Now I went to another part of the zone after that hunt and saw 6 more wolves and once again very little elk. I was really started getting angry cause my hunting area went from top knotch to absolute Sh!!. the elk herds were even worse than the year before. By last year I saw 2 bulls total in all the days I hunted and about 10 cows and no calves. I saw 12 wolves in one drainage i hunted. We actually watched them take down 2 elk the first morning there. I know that since being able to hunt the wolves the fish and game has said that they are seeing more calves per hundred cows but the herd has already taken a huge hit. it will take years of excellent management and control of the wolf population to get the elk herds back to close to where they were. sure we can say that other preditors contributed to the decline of the elk herds, but when you look at the herds before 1995 in Idaho Montana and Wyoming the only logical explanation to the drastic decline in these states ar the reintroduction to the wolves. the elk had never seen a preditor like this and the wolves took full advantage of the easy prey. we are now seeing major decines in Moose and deer populations. why the drastic drops well history tells the story. the wolves food source in deminishing so it is time to change the diet a little.

I have a friend that lives in the Bitterroot valley and the elk population from 10 years a go to now is scarry. almost completely gone. I could go on and on how the wolves have negatively impacted our natural resource here in Idaho but I won't. It is essential to the elks survival that we as hunters do our part to control the wolf populations by meeting the wolf qoutas that are given to us every year. a few extra would not hurt either. We are only putting a dent in the problem as fast as they breed. we must stop pointing fingers at each other and come together to help our herds survive. Whether you are a rancher or a city slicker. we need to stop the fighting and put that energy towards keeping our elk, deer and moose herds thriving for our children to enjoy.

YES THE WOLVES REALLY ARE A PROBLEM. A major problem in my state and others and I hope that other states around us do not experience the declines we have. wolves are being seen more and more in other states and I hope that they are controled before they affect those states like it has affected ours. Until it affects you at a personal level it is real easy to assume we are all overracting. We are not overracting we are living in reality every day we step into the woods.
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  #88  
Old 09-02-2013, 12:30 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Posts: 131
Re: Are wolves really the problem

Amen Broz,

kind of what I was thinking while reading.
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  #89  
Old 09-02-2013, 01:37 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 106
Re: Are wolves really the problem

MontanaRifleman and mtnwrunner; you are why people have a distaste for sportsmen. I have been posting all along i am all for hunting wolves, not once did i say i was against hunting wolves. I have been hunting for many years and that fact that i was searching for proof not someones word as to why the wolves are the problem is why i asked this question. I also posted that if I were in the position/location as many of you are i would be s,s,s when it came to every wolf and coyote. It seems to me that you can type away on a keyboard but cant or wont go shoot a wolf or 10. Longrangefreek made the most sense of most of these posts and i would like to see any pics you can provide to this thread. It has been said that elk cannot be herded any direction they do not want to go yet if you shoot a pile of elk they go away but you have to leave the gut piles and or the entire elk to rot. Is that not a means of herding elk?
Getting angry at me because i don't believe what you say without a thought or wanting proof is the same as the mass of sheeple that believe the libs about how gun control will eliminate crime.

you keep shooting the elk in montana, and wolves and bears and mnt lions and coyotes and i will continue to hunt in washington and idaho.

post the pics whenever you can
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  #90  
Old 09-02-2013, 02:22 PM
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Western Montana
Posts: 45
Re: Are wolves really the problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by longrangehuntr View Post
why people have a distaste for sportsmen.
Mass media and Hollywood are why people have a distaste for sportsmen and mass media/Hollywood is why some fools want gun control.

"Proof" is not something that comes from some corrupt "person with authority". The experiences of everyday hunters are worth more to me than what bought-and-paid-for "ex-spurts" say.
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  #91  
Old 09-02-2013, 03:03 PM
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Carey, Idaho
Posts: 1,034
Re: Are wolves really the problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by longrangehuntr View Post
MontanaRifleman and mtnwrunner; you are why people have a distaste for sportsmen. I have been posting all along i am all for hunting wolves, not once did i say i was against hunting wolves. I have been hunting for many years and that fact that i was searching for proof not someones word as to why the wolves are the problem is why i asked this question. I also posted that if I were in the position/location as many of you are i would be s,s,s when it came to every wolf and coyote. It seems to me that you can type away on a keyboard but cant or wont go shoot a wolf or 10. Longrangefreek made the most sense of most of these posts and i would like to see any pics you can provide to this thread. It has been said that elk cannot be herded any direction they do not want to go yet if you shoot a pile of elk they go away but you have to leave the gut piles and or the entire elk to rot. Is that not a means of herding elk?
Getting angry at me because i don't believe what you say without a thought or wanting proof is the same as the mass of sheeple that believe the libs about how gun control will eliminate crime.

you keep shooting the elk in montana, and wolves and bears and mnt lions and coyotes and i will continue to hunt in washington and idaho.

post the pics whenever you can
Well, you don't know me from adam and I don't know you other than what you post. You can look up my profile and it will tell you who I am but the funny thing is yours doesn't say a thing. Hmmmmmm............. The one thing that I can assure you of is that I am about as much "sportsman" as one can be and that statement from you is the only real one so far that has pissed me off. You say that I, and others are "angry" with you---nope, I, we, just hate ignorance when it comes to the wolf issue. I, unlike you, LIVE in one of the most controversial wolf areas when it comes to the wolf issue so yes, I can speak about that issue with some experience. You have been given example after example after example of why it is the wolves which is the answer to your original post. There is no one on this site that is gonna change your mind---you have it made up.

Randy

Oh yeah, be sure to vote for conservatives..................
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